More stuff with less pathetic yukkuri?

Basically what the title says. Does anyone else think it would be interesting to have comics/stories where Yukkuri aren't actually so utterly helpless, and have more actual survival mechanisms? That way, it provides slightly more conflict or tension before a satisfying resolution, or a twist happy ending, or something new to exploit as a side-effect of their new abilities?

I sometimes get tired of when they're so ridiculously fragile they die without any effort or suspense, and the appeal of "lamest possible way to die" also gets old. Like I was tossing around some ideas, not to use all at once, but just in general...

1: House yus being more like bugs in injury reaction... Big pain tolerance, small wounds just seal up, less leaky paste, etc.

2: Because yukkuri bodies are simple and magical, they actually all regenerate very fast, at the cost of shrinking/ quickly using up excess paste/ etc. Yukkuri escaping injury but having to shrink so small it has to struggle to adapt/ care for family/ etc?

3: A comedy where an anon finds out it's not actually as easy to exterminate a yukkuri as he thought.

4: Yukkuri still mostly dumb, but having unexpectedly high social intelligence as a survival mechanism. Groups and families are much more stable and loyal, and don't self-destruct over every little character flaw and bout of stupidity. The numbers becoming more frustrating to deal with when combined with the fact that the yukkuri are more organized and look out for each other better.

5: Yukkuri can't die from poison or nasty tastes, because they're just paste. They can also retain it as protection... Which could then lead to a story where some yukkuri think they need to gorge on an excessive amount of gross stuff for their safety, basically putting them through a lot of non-fatal misery for nothing.

6: Kos actually have the proportionately thickest skin, and are very chewy and rubbery for safety. Could be in a bullying thing where they get used as bouncy/stress balls, being unhappy but ultimately surviving.

7: Only previously weakened/wounded Yukkuri being weak to water, while healthy ones actually have some kind of sealant or repellent.

SirBuggles said:

Basically what the title says. Does anyone else think it would be interesting to have comics/stories where Yukkuri aren't actually so utterly helpless, and have more actual survival mechanisms? That way, it provides slightly more conflict or tension before a satisfying resolution, or a twist happy ending, or something new to exploit as a side-effect of their new abilities?

We did have a relay manga with an idea close to this until 2015. It got cancelled due to uneasy amount of plot holes and schedules AFK.

Also, see topic #10318

1: House yus being more like bugs in injury reaction... Big pain tolerance, small wounds just seal up, less leaky paste, etc.

I don't like the idea of house yus in the first place. Why did they need to evolve (or devolve, depending on how you look at it) to bug-sized to begin with?

2: Because yukkuri bodies are simple and magical, they actually all regenerate very fast, at the cost of shrinking/ quickly using up excess paste/ etc. Yukkuri escaping injury but having to shrink so small it has to struggle to adapt/ care for family/ etc?

Hm. That's an interesting angle.

3: A comedy where an anon finds out it's not actually as easy to exterminate a yukkuri as he thought.

I think there's been a few of these -- not that it's not as easy, but the anon is so pathetic, he can't catch the yukkuri.

4: Yukkuri still mostly dumb, but having unexpectedly high social intelligence as a survival mechanism. Groups and families are much more stable and loyal, and don't self-destruct over every little character flaw and bout of stupidity. The numbers becoming more frustrating to deal with when combined with the fact that the yukkuri are more organized and look out for each other better.

Kind of the inspiration for my story. They can't be so dumb and without-instinct that they have absolutely no capacity for survival, otherwise they would have gone extinct long ago. Even roaches know to find tight spaces before breeding.

5: Yukkuri can't die from poison or nasty tastes, because they're just paste. They can also retain it as protection... Which could then lead to a story where some yukkuri think they need to gorge on an excessive amount of gross stuff for their safety, basically putting them through a lot of non-fatal misery for nothing.

Well, there's some poisons that will always work on them, but nasty tastes tend to only kill them due to the trauma of it, not the actual taste. However, someone did something like this and made a red-headed Reimu, who was immune to spicy food. Also, some yukkuri learned to spread their own poop on themselves in order to keep Remilias away from them -- the smell sends Remilias running.

6: Kos actually have the proportionately thickest skin, and are very chewy and rubbery for safety. Could be in a bullying thing where they get used as bouncy/stress balls, being unhappy but ultimately surviving.

Interesting angle, and rather accurate.

7: Only previously weakened/wounded Yukkuri being weak to water, while healthy ones actually have some kind of sealant or repellent.

Part of the explanation I have for 'water-proof' yukkuri is that their body has an oily feel to them (like Nitori and Wagasaki). Honestly, it's possible all yukkuri can -potentially- be made waterproof if they either breed FROM waterproof yukkuri, or are slowly introduced to it and made to believe they're immune.

Or, ya know, generate some kind of oily layer.

Sounds a lot more like the "nature" related type of stories, where it's yukkuris vs the environment. I do remember a lot of stories around more "sturdy" yukkuris, and I've personally wrote a few random ones that are centered around nature themes. A lot of what you say make sense, and I wouldn't mind seeing stories around certain aspects that you mentioned.

There used to be a lot more stories around nature-related themes (that mostly still ends with the yukkuri's demise), but as we're all well aware that the genre has died down a lot over the past few years and we don't have much new materials. I also recall quite a few stories dealing with yukkuris being basically minor youkai/fairies, and have corresponding powers/abilities as they get older that culminate in becoming a Dosu.

Then there's the weird subgenre of yurrikus and arisu-chan type of yukkuris, if you can still call them yukkuris.

One thing that's more or less canon is that because yukkuris are weak, they reproduce fast and have lots of children, and consequently short lifespans. What you see mostly on here is them being abuse-fodder, which is why they are so weak and die so easily. Realistically speaking, I'd expect a basketball-sized yukkuri that has incredible elasticity and agility to be much harder to deal with, given their minor intelligence and herd-like behavior. Imagine being hit by 20 basketball sized objects that weight about 5-10 lbs repeatedly... not really something you'd be able to deal with easily without tools or weapons to protect yourself.

poweryoga said:

Realistically speaking, I'd expect a basketball-sized yukkuri that has incredible elasticity and agility to be much harder to deal with, given their minor intelligence and herd-like behavior. Imagine being hit by 20 basketball sized objects that weight about 5-10 lbs repeatedly... not really something you'd be able to deal with easily without tools or weapons to protect yourself.

Getting hit on the head by a basketball alone can briefly knock someone out. So, if that's the case, at least 10 yukkuri of that size and weight in that momentum can possibly kill a human child.

Wow, I actually wasn't expecting to see this much of a response already. Good to know there actually is at least some material like this if I look hard enough.

But even if yukkuri were a bit stronger, I actually wouldn't expect yukkuri to be naturally very aggressive. Shitheads that are that way "just because" always feel illogically self-destructive even by the internal logic of yukkuri. The one believably helpful trait in shitheads is that they tend to be assertive... But then comes their stupidity and arrogant delusions. They'd most likely just get whoever they take charge of killed, and it's hard to believe their families could ever do as well as normal families, so they shouldn't be so common.

In general, I think what I'd do above all to "strengthen" yukkuri wouldn't be to give them too much more physical strength... Just to make them less ridiculously, illogically self-destructive in how they act. Anything that falls into that trend of "too mean and dumb to get along" is usually very hard for me to get into.

My personal headcanon is that yukkuri would mostly be rather innocent, a bit unsure of themselves, and actually quite kind, but socially awkward. Most of the trouble they'd cause would be from their ignorance and desire to survive. Both genuine shitheads and hardcore abusers would actually be pretty rare, and most people would find humane ways to deal with them... Especially with them being able to talk and probably sounding exactly like toddlers and little girls. Bullying them is one thing, but I feel like people who truly feel remorseless in killing them would be uncommon.

Shitheads would largely be because of stress and trauma rather than genetics... and I'd like to see more of the idea that shitheads are actually capable of reform. After all, if yukkuri are usually so naive and gullible, what changes in a shithead to make it so hardheaded? But I guess it's easier to people to just say they're inherently awful and deserve only death and abuse.

If yukkuri have survived this long, then even with overbreeding, they have to have some kind of defensive mechanism. A small bump over a rock shouldn't automatically mean death. Their own forms would evolve to resist things like that.

I believe, honestly, shitheads exist because of exposure to humans. I relate that to the fact that we have rubbed off onto them. I believe that yukkuri society would be far too difficult to keep structured if shitheads made their way into any kind of herd. It wouldn't take long for the herd to weed them out and kick them out, thus they either turn to stealing to survive, or taking over the herd, which wouldn't happen because they're all bluff. They're not alphas, they just -tend- to be more cunning.

My headcanon is that, after all we've done to them, they're rather wary of humans, unless otherwise a pet-trained.

Also, shithead aren't genetics -- they're just narcissists.

Hitosura said:

If yukkuri have survived this long, then even with overbreeding, they have to have some kind of defensive mechanism. A small bump over a rock shouldn't automatically mean death. Their own forms would evolve to resist things like that.

I do think yus should gain/pass on more sense of their fragility, which is evolution in self-awareness. As far as their physical resistance to tearing, I'm not seeing it. Humans haven't developed resistance to lacerations.

I believe, honestly, shitheads exist because of exposure to humans. I relate that to the fact that we have rubbed off onto them. I believe that yukkuri society would be far too difficult to keep structured if shitheads made their way into any kind of herd. It wouldn't take long for the herd to weed them out and kick them out, thus they either turn to stealing to survive, or taking over the herd, which wouldn't happen because they're all bluff. They're not alphas, they just -tend- to be more cunning.

My headcanon is that, after all we've done to them, they're rather wary of humans, unless otherwise a pet-trained.

I guess..myself, I don't think yus are some innocent life form corrupted by humankind. I think they're supposed to be like their Touhou namesakes, warts and all. But everybody has differing degrees of character traits, so maybe a shithead Marisa embodies the thieving and annoying part of Kirisame's personality and the niceheads stick up for their friends. Two shithead parents up the odds.

Also, shithead aren't genetics -- they're just narcissists.

Yeah, I'd agree it's probably environment. A nicehead family can spoil their spawn.

#1. Yes we have, we call them callouses.

#2. Yus don't always have to be innocent, but a collective community can sniff out one who takes more than they give.

#3. Some yukkuri are just born with negative personalities. Others acquire it from parents/environment/narcissism.

Well, yukkuris originated from touhou memes. So it's where all the "city-sect" alices that likes to keep neat and pretty, marisa being strong and aggressive, etc came from. So of course yes, they retain those parody personalities. And if the yukkuri behaves outside of the persona it seems weird, explained as being "uneasy" possibly by other yukkuris.

on that note: "shithead" behavior would probably help yukkuris survive better in the wild. Who's more likely to survive: the one that keeps sharing their food with everyone, or the one that steals and eats food from the weak yukkuris on top of hoarding theirown? I think there's a lot of "dumb" shitheads for the sake of stories, but the ones that live long are the ruthless ones that know when to be a shithead, and when to run away and let others die. I'd like to think if it's truly counter-productive to be a shithead in a clan, the trait would be less desirable and perhaps bred out, or it'll lead to the death of the clan eventually. But yukkuris aren't smart enough to just oust or kick out the moochers, unless you want them to be that way for your story.

On that note regarding fitness: if yukkuris are in a clan, there might be different degrees of behavior compared to more solitary yukkuris. Where cooperative spirit helps more than being a shithead, you'll probably see a lot more cooperative yukkuris and fewer selfish ones. I like to think that yukkuris that are brought up poorly or are solitary for too long are the ones that end up being "shitheads", in the wild anyway. You may also think of it being something that triggers in yukkuris to help each other when they meetup or are in a clan.

As for yukkuri evolution to survive better in the wilds, here's some that I've seen so far used in stories:

- Callouses (as mentioned) from hunting day in and day out.
- Awareness of changing weather.
- Good survival skills: tracking, woodsmanship, etc.
- Good instincts: agility, hiding, etc.
- Breeds a lot (stalk birth) if their fitness level is low. Can also give birth to fully formed kos via mammalian birth.
- etc etc....

It's easy to find parallels in nature, hence the large variety of stories and interpretations.

I've believed in the general chaos theory -- there's no precursor to anything, therefore, anything is a possibility.

There's no proof that a shithead is truly a shithead all the time -- and simply can't be manipulated given the proper motivation.

I agree with the whole idea of, 'cunning,' but even that can only get you so far. I know what you mean by, 'sharing too much,' but we're not talking about animal instinct -- yukkuri intellect, I'd say, would rate just below humanoid intelligence. Any creatures that can respect their dead, be self-aware of their situation, create micro-societies, reason, beg, and show cognitive problem-solving rates pretty high. Many, many, many animals exhibit some (and even in rare cases, all) of those traits, it's just harder for them to communicate it to humans. It's easier for yukkuri.

I've actually been interested in just, like I've said before, seeing stories not end in the yukkuri always dying, especially in the case of gutter trash who work hard, and are niceheads. Forgiveness and redemption, as you can tell from my story, are things I enjoy.

BTW, I'm slowly hatching an idea for a Mokou. :P

Yeah, a "foot" callus is reasonable. Which does go back to why yus aren't generally shown to heal, except for Remilias. Outside the foot calluses, pain as a self-limiting survival sensation prevents risky behavior. I've never seen humans callus outside of hands/feet and that's why we wear protective clothing. Some people do develop keloids, though.

I've mentioned before I like the idea of self-directed improvement..evolution in yus. It's nice to see discussions about that and the limits of it. What is everyone's thoughts about being bodied mean to a yu as far as potential? Does a bodied yu ponder their existence? Do they aspire to become human? Do they believe in life beyond death?

There's been kos who ponder their existence.

Philosophy isn't limited to just bodied, it's just no one ever writes long enough for a yu to ever contemplate it long enough to come up with anything.

Plus, they usually die from anti-yukkuritis.

Topic: More stuff with less pathetic yukkuri

Yes make comics like this

I've had thoughts of writing a story in an anon's point-of-view of acquiring and owning an Anoniyukkuri.

I'd like to see more where humans aren't always the villain, help, or even save yukkuri from other animals/humans.

Sometimes I wonder how much progress yukkuri could make if you actually bothered to try putting them through proper education, rather than them just learning informally from their parents/peers/life experiences.

Obviously not a great deal, but on the other hand, they tend to be easily manipulated and easy to motivate, so that could help things along. You could probably just tell them that learning will make them "easier" and promise some sweet-sweets if they do well, and at least a good chunk of them would put in decent effort as long as you continually remind them and keep them on track. And with their compressed lifespan, it sometimes seems that they actually learn certain things faster than us, they just have a lower "cap" on it.

With their other skills considered as a whole, I'd think most yukkuri actually could learn basic reading, math, and some slightly more advanced survival and life skills, while the smarter varieties could go up to perhaps middle school level.

I've already seen some obedience/training school type stuff, but a lot of the time it comes off as bleak and pessimistic for the sake of yukkuri misery.

You should read some of the fanfics posted on the google groups. Hourai had a series going that's fairly epic.

Here's a somewhat concise, although no longer maintained list. I still maintain the google groups but content is fairly limited these days.

https://sites.google.com/site/yukkurifanfics/home/story-list

SirBuggles said:

Sometimes I wonder how much progress yukkuri could make if you actually bothered to try putting them through proper education, rather than them just learning informally from their parents/peers/life experiences.

Obviously not a great deal, but on the other hand, they tend to be easily manipulated and easy to motivate, so that could help things along. You could probably just tell them that learning will make them "easier" and promise some sweet-sweets if they do well, and at least a good chunk of them would put in decent effort as long as you continually remind them and keep them on track. And with their compressed lifespan, it sometimes seems that they actually learn certain things faster than us, they just have a lower "cap" on it.

With their other skills considered as a whole, I'd think most yukkuri actually could learn basic reading, math, and some slightly more advanced survival and life skills, while the smarter varieties could go up to perhaps middle school level.

I've already seen some obedience/training school type stuff, but a lot of the time it comes off as bleak and pessimistic for the sake of yukkuri misery.

Precisely how I approached it.

They're cognitive, albeit lazy. Proper motivation can produce good results.

The problem is that most of the time, teaching them produces the results of them killing strays, or the buyer is an abyuser. The best-trained niceheads wind up in the hands of abyusers and the shitty badge-trained wind up with mister nice guy who winds up kicking them out after the obligatory mating with a stray.

The story I'm writing has all of them:
A Patchouli who was given survival books before being sent out as a stray.
A pet yukkuri who assists strays in learning the basics of being pets.
A human who helps the yukkuri expand their vocabulary and grammar.
(soon)
A slightly-more elaborate explanation of how yukkuri training works (thought of using a points system)
A handful of 'training puzzles' for single and group exercises (good thing I'm a craftsman! :D)
More as I think of it

The points system will basically work like:
Manners/isms, grammar, choices during exercises (E.G. bridge exercise that requires 3 yukkuri to pull down a bridge (+points to first yukkuri to solve that), where one has to go across(+/- depending on volunteer/leadership/demanding). The one that goes across can either eat the food on the other side (-points), or push down the second bridge on that side that will allow the other three to pass (++ if done before munch-munch)

Those are some interesting ideas, and I'm looking through the fanfiction.

Also, I admit that I also want more stuff where yukkuri are just straight up cute and not in danger... It'd be a nice counterbalance, since my usual cycle of looking through stuff on here involves a "burnout" point where I leave because the abuse gets to be frustrating rather than a source of morbid fascination.