One Yukkuri Place

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Topic: More stuff with less pathetic yukkuri?

Posted under General

exitstrategy

Ruukasu said:

I would like to see a yukkuri trained to assist and/or accommodate people with disabilities (e.g. blindness, clinical depression, etc.) too.

Sounds like there might be a story about a small group helping people around at a nursing home. The bulk of them spend the day carrying around trays and tools. A toughened marisa can serve as a crash pad for clumsy people. They can be allowed to breed with the staff turning the kos into snacks without telling the parents.

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  • SirBuggles

    I also had an idea about yukkuri having an "easy sense".

    It'd basically be a culmination of their desire to be easy... They automatically know if something will be "easy" or not, even if they don't necessarily understand why.

    It wouldn't really be OP as it sounds because its usefulness would actually be its downfall. By having such a powerful instinct, there would be less pressure for them to actually become stronger. It would create an over-dependence on that one ability. Kind of like how a fly is hopeless if it can't fly.

    Because they remain so weak, they still have a lot of times where they can't actually avoid something even though they know it's uneasy. And sometimes, they also fail to take enough risks.

    It would also be flawed in a complex situation, because they could easily misjudge why exactly the situation is uneasy, unwittingly making things worse for themselves.

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  • Salem

    They already have something like that.

    They have a general idea if someone is an Uneasy Mister (kind of like if we see someone that looks drug addict, leper, or body covered in tattoo with fingers missing, we normally avoid them). There are also case where they feel something is uneasy even if they don't understand why.

    The idea of feeling something is easy is really natural.
    We like sweets because it has lots of calories to stockpile since you never know when is the next meal. While bitter food are usually rotten or poisonous.
    We intuitively see certain qualities of potential mate as preferable (healthy, able to provide safety, can give access to social privileges, etc).

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  • SirBuggles

    Salem said:

    They already have something like that.

    They have a general idea if someone is an Uneasy Mister (kind of like if we see someone that looks drug addict, leper, or body covered in tattoo with fingers missing, we normally avoid them). There are also case where they feel something is uneasy even if they don't understand why.

    The idea of feeling something is easy is really natural.
    We like sweets because it has lots of calories to stockpile since you never know when is the next meal. While bitter food are usually rotten or poisonous.
    We intuitively see certain qualities of potential mate as preferable (healthy, able to provide safety, can give access to social privileges, etc).

    Welp, guess it's doing its job of not being too OP then, lmao.

    I was on a more exaggerated line of thinking, like something that's outright magical or at least acute enough to go beyond common sense instincts, but I see what you're saying.

    But I guess my core issue is still that I want yukkuri to be more self-aware and less self-destructive. Not knowing how to count past three is one thing, but ridiculous delusions of grandeur and blind optimism are another. There's stupid, then there's too stupid to believably exist.

    Updated by SirBuggles

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  • captperv

    yukkuri breed so quick and mature so fast if they didn't die by stupid accidents we would be cleaning them up with a bulldozer. they aren't stupid as so much as simple. Plus they will forget things as soon as they poo so its hard to judge how smart they really are

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  • Hitosura

    That all depends on the headcanon, really. Some stories, it takes months for them to mature, and aren't an adult until at least about a year. Just because they have kids young doesn't mean they're adults.

    Also, the whole, 'breed so quick' thing is on purpose to justify abyuse. Look how fast house yus multiply. Five minutes, and there's suddenly a clutch of 5070832640862 eggs everywhere.

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  • poweryoga

    Also, the whole, 'breed so quick' thing is on purpose to justify abyuse. Look how fast house yus multiply. Five minutes, and there's suddenly a clutch of 5070832640862 eggs everywhere.

    Not really, it just closely emulates nature. There's 2 types of canonical breeding: mammalian (hardy, stronger but less offsprings) vs stalk (more numerous, but weaker and far more offsprings). House Yus breed even more quickly with eggs: tons of really weak offsprings, though I've also seen stories with them having stalk birth.

    If you look at the types of pregnancy: it makes sense environmentally. In a stable environment without many predators or natural disasters: it makes sense for the labor intensive (1 parent completely incapacitated) but much more rewarding and high survival rate mammalian birth. The japanese rate the yukkuri maturity level from baby -> ko -> young adult -> adult, and the mammalian birth yields koyukkuris immediately, which can forage and hunt with their parents right from birth.

    In an environment where there's predators, or its more advantageous to have numerous off springs: stalk birth is favored. Lots of children make sure some of them survive to the next season, and it lets both parents forage. (though the one with the stalk has considerably less mobility). The yukkuris come out as baby yukkuris and have limited mobility for a few weeks.

    Eggs is house-yu exclusive, where they exist like ants or cockroaches, and their small size means even spiders, cockroaches, rats or other pests can treat them as prey. As part of the bottom of the food chain, it makes sense to have a lot of children, because most of them won't survive. They all hatch as baby yukkuris with nearly no ability to survive.

    Almost every story I've read have the yukkuris mature either over the course of 1 full year, or if they're mammalian birth over the course of a season or 2. In the yukkuri seasons story, Marisa is born in early spring, and moves out and finds a new mate/nest in fall. When she comes back to her old nest with a Reimu mate + koyukkuri the next year to look for her parents, they've already died from old age, and so they take over the old nest and start the cycle over again.

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  • Ruukasu

    Depending on how well a yukkuri is treated, would the body evolution, so to speak, extend its life?

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  • Hitosura

    Ruukasu said:

    Depending on how well a yukkuri is treated, would the body evolution, so to speak, extend its life?

    I would assume so. Larger body = larger capacity of paste, more room for core.

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  • SirBuggles

    captperv said:

    yukkuri breed so quick and mature so fast if they didn't die by stupid accidents we would be cleaning them up with a bulldozer. they aren't stupid as so much as simple. Plus they will forget things as soon as they poo so its hard to judge how smart they really are

    In real life, there's a lot of stuff that reproduces very, very quickly but still manages to stay at a reasonable level in spite of that. Yukkuri would probably manage to infest and overrun certain areas sometimes, but there would still be limiting factors in their way. Being a bit more thoughtful and down to earth wouldn't erase how weak they still are. For example, rats are actually pretty smart, along with their speed, senses, and versatility, but still die left and right and hardly ever reach old age.

    And most of the "stupid" things animals do in real life are mainly because they were just tricked/confused, or following an instinct that would actually be helpful in other cases. Same thing goes for the mean things they do, which still have some kind of survival logic.

    Meanwhile, a lot of Yukkuri accidents and failings hardly even follow that logic. Kos kill each other for petty reasons, and a lot of stories give them a high chance of being born irredeemably shitheaded just for suffering's sake. Even the adults self destruct their families, friendships, and groups for the pettiest reasons, even when there are no other issues. Yukkuri are a very social species, and yet have a tendency to bitterly keep things to themselves and have terrible misunderstandings with pointless bouts of jealousy and hate. They usually have little self control and mess up vitally important things out of sheer laziness and negligence, despite their lives being on the line.

    I also find it weird how a lot of them are also irrationally aggressive for weak paste blobs that should find fighting to be a really risky behavior. Of course if their source character is aggressive it kind of makes sense, but I would still expect yukkuri "fighting" to be mostly a bunch of posturing and intimidation, with the actual fighting being very brief and not causing much genuine harm. Otherwise, even the "winner" of a highly violent fight could routinely get dirty and injured enough to die or get mold infections later. This kind of "fighting" could also provide a sensible use for "Puff Puff", with Yukkuri usually being smart enough to try avoiding it in other situations, unless they're already out of options.

    And I don't want to talk about the rapers much, since I honestly wish that idea would just die out, especially when it's rape with no justice... But in cases of death by rape, I would at least think it's really counter-intuitive to let your victim die instead of carrying on your genes, when you already put so much energy into subduing them and having sex.

    But in short, I guess this is just a roundabout way of saying that a lot of Yukkuri stories frustrate me more than they satisfy me.

    That Yukkuri seasons story was actually really good though, mainly because I felt like it supported my idea that Yukkuri just being weak and vulnerable is better than Yukkuri that are too dumb to exist.

    Updated by SirBuggles

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  • Hitosura

    Nature tends to evolve to create ecosystems, where creatures learn to feed off of one-another. If yukkuri exist in nature, and to an extent, always have, then they should have plenty of natural hazards. While I don't see any particular creature hunting them for food (no, really, their dough would have virtually no scent, and thus, the only time they could be noticed is by heat, bleeding, moving, or talking), they're particularly vulnerable to rain, which would drastically limit their population sizes. I'm sure eventual migrations and knowledge would eventually yield them places where the rain can't flood them so easily, however, I feel that with their level of self-awareness, they'd still never really produce more than they could feed. I also feel, with their strong family instincts, that they would never really ever spread out, anyway. They'd mostly stay in any area with open, easy access to food, if not simply learn how to harvest food themselves. I saw one interesting thing where a family of yukkuri were raising pill bugs for food, using their poop to feed them. Most artists/writers don't want to give them credit, mostly to limit their capacity to humanize them. It's a means of keeping us from connecting a bit -too- much to them, and feeling as if they deserve the beatings they often take.

    Yes, a lot of the logic they like to use is pretty broken, as means of making them kill one-another. I can understand the accessory-thing to an extent by rationalizing it that yukkuri tend to be cave-dwellers, and thus don't have very well-developed eyes (like cats -- who can't even really see you that well), so the accessory helps them to identify others. They can recognize those they have deeper ties to through unseen links like friendship, bonds, and love.

    Yes, I want to humanize them more. I just try to make them more 'animal' than 'everything we hate about people.' Even, in my story, with Rin. Turns out she's a talkative lap kitty. I had one of those before -- except she loved to knead the crap out of you. xD

    On a more serious note, did you ever get that creepy vibe that so many stories out there are only just trying to out-do one-another's drama? Especially in the near-immediate aftermath of True Happiness?

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  • BaronMind

    Yuuuuuu I can't take it anymore! Somebody write something already!

    *everyone stares at Cirno*

    ...after I finish this contest entry, okay?

    On topic, yukkuri logic makes a weird kind of sense to me. It's what made me stick around. The obsession with taking it easy, believing things grow or go away on their own, announcing everything they do, even the self-entitled shitheads; their stupidity is one of the things that make them fun. I do like me some abyuse, but I also like the cute and harmless sort of dumb, like kos 'hiding' with their butts exposed.

    My favorite kind of stories are nature stories though. I like seeing how different authors reconcile the pure absurdity of talking manjuu with the cold hard reality of surviving in the wild. It's just so silly, in an almost Monty Python kind of way.

    But on the subject of 'less pathetic'... what about pet yukkuri? Especially platinum yukkuri. They're often treated as being either regular yukkuri without the stupidity (which is what I think gold should be) or way OP human replacements. I've been trying to find a good balance for my stories... especially while avoiding having bodied yukkuri. Every time I put one of those in something it goes tits-up.

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  • SirBuggles

    I think the announcement thing could actually serve a pretty reasonable social purpose. Letting others around you know how you're doing and how you feel, as well as making cooperation go a bit more smoothly and clearing up confusion. Secrecy and privacy still has some benefits, but it would usually be best for yukkuri to be super clear and honest with their families and groups.

    Pet yukkuri are actually really interesting. If they were real, I'd be interesting in having a couple for myself.

    The only thing is that they often seem to require a lot of breeding and training to get that way, and I often feel like the stories are kinda implying that yukkuri are usually inherently awful and stupid, and getting them to gold/platinum level is almost a miracle.

    I remember a comic where a really kind and well behaved gold-badge Reimu still ended up horribly abused and corrupted just for the hell of it... That's probably the most a yukkuri story has ever genuinely upset and frustrated me. I almost wanted to write a fixer fic just to feel better about it.

    I've also had a few more ideas exploring underestimated yukkuri , and the general idea of a world where the common opinion on yukkuri is actually pretty misinformed and "racist", with a lot of yukkuri that don't actually follow all preconceptions about their qualities.

    Like an Anon discovering a yukkuri that uses "I" for herself and actually asks him his name instead of calling him mister.

    Said Yukkuri getting offended when he says she's "supposed" to speak 3rd person and only call him mister.

    "Do I look like a baby to you, Haru?"

    Repeat offensive assumptions and arguments until the yukkuri leaves in a huff and Haru is just totally dumbfounded.

    You could also throw in some things that are still true, which could be used for more comedy.

    "I suppose you're going to go 'yunya' now, aren't you?"

    "Yunya! Don't be rude, Haru! I never say yunya!"

    "You just did."

    "...YUNYA!!!"

    This is now the main reason yukkuri are shitty towards humans: Humans are racist and condescending as hell XD.

    I also think it would be a pretty interesting idea to have a story where pet stores and breeders sort of have a conspiracy going where they /claim/ that getting gold badge yukkuri is really tricky and difficult and only experts can manage it, so that they can justify really high prices for the best yukkuri and make it so consumers don't want anything else. They could also have misleading caretaking/punishment advice that makes it seem like "oh, your dumb little regular yukkuri is a lost cause, you better come buy a gold badge yukkuri!"

    Then someone takes in a supposed "trash" yukkuri and manages to teach it manners and get it to behave well in only a week or two (not gold, but still way better than anyone thought), by doing some experimenting, critically examining the supposed "expert advice", and modifying anything that doesn't seem to add up.

    Repeated experiments continually show that most yukkuri actually have a lot more gold badge potential than people are led to believe, and the truth of this slowly spreads, from both the main character and from other people who were also curious and resourceful enough to discover the truth.

    The result would be a story where abyuse could actually dramatically /decrease/ by the end of it.

    Updated by SirBuggles

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  • Hitosura

    Baka Cirno! Kei is writing!

    Slowly, but... writing! My chapters tend to evolve as I write them. Newer ideas come up, finally flesh out what I want. The only trouble I have is being in that 'mode' where I can immerse myself and start writing. Once I do, I can usually go a few pages until I either get tired or lose my inspiration.

    So far, things are going well with this chapter. I have a few more things I wanna do, but I'm not absolutely sure where I want to end it. ._. Kind of like last chapter.

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  • SirBuggles

    I was thinking of doing a non-abyuse story about a nice bodied house yu, mainly centering around its struggles and its attempts to figure out its place in the world.

    It would start off as just an unusually bright house yu, and be an anomaly by yu-biology standards, with the idea of this particular story universe being that house yus are usually too small and simple to meet the minimum requirements to become bodied, especially not such a "high-functioning" one. It doesn't get along with normal house yus anymore, as it has become too "sophisticated" for them, having an epiphany that a life centered around being an uneasy, thieving nuisance to mister humans and constantly being their enemy isn't actually easy.

    Normal yukkuri also usually ostracize it, although some nicer and smarter ones would eventually learn it can be befriended if they just give it a chance.

    Humans look down on it, believing it's too small to be very smart, although it does get adopted out of curiosity and become like a tiny servant.

    I was also thinking that it could have two cores, with the second being extra processing power instead of an actual second consciousness, since the original core is so small it could use some help. The second is in it's torso, and kinda like a metaphorical "heart" or "spirit". An accessory to the original core, giving it unusually high empathy and emotional intelligence, along with a general cognition boost.

    It could also develop some weak magic, although not right away, since I was thinking it would have to build up further experience and self confidence to do so. Basically my working explanation is that the increased processing power and multitasking ability afforded by its second core lets it learn how to do that.

    Updated by SirBuggles

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