One Yukkuri Place

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    AD

    Hoh? What's this? People can prevent Yukkuri home invasions if they can be bothered to do so? Why, it's just like pretty much every other household pest!

    Suddenly at least half of yukkuri invasion crap is the fault of lazy homeowners.

    SUN

    Newsflash: not everyone is adept at magic barriers, so don't jump to conclusions bucko. And yukkuris will always find ways to mess with people, whether inside your home or not. I don't see why you wouldn't let them in, though- free food for your cat or dog, maybe even you.

    AD

    "I don't see why you wouldn't let them in, though" - Says the person who was going batshit mental over the damage home invaders do in other comments?

    Either way, magic barriers or not the fact is a good number of home invasion scenarios we see strongly imply that the Yukkuri literally just walked in through an open door. I have no problem with smashing the little bastards if they've wrecked your stuff, but there's a distinct difference between them actually breaking in and a homeowner being stupid enough to simply let them in without any trouble.

    Simply put, if you don't want pests then don't make it so damn easy for pests to get in.

    Gitami

    There was an image of how they get in. Smash your window, enter from cracks in your basement, mail slots, and for some reason second floor, chimneys, ventilation outlets.
    The majority seems to be through windows. Then homeowners returns home through the front door and see them declaring it's their yukkuri place.

    The homeowner being careless does not absolve a burglar of the crime. Almost a chicken and the egg problem, without burglars there is no need to lock the home and without locks the home invites burglars.

    AD

    Except we're speaking of household pests - like rats. Rats (and indeed burglars) can and will find their way into a place, but that's no excuse to be making it *easy* for them to do so - which is my issue here.

    Ventilation outlets and chimneys are easy to protect with mesh grills (obviously small enough mesh to prevent smaller yukkuri getting through), windows can be toughened or it would be a simple matter to put some kind of dull spikes along the windowsill (dull enough to be harmless to humans, but spikey enough to tear any yukkuri climbing up there), baited traps can be placed anywhere and if you have serious cracks in your basement then chances are Yukkuri are soon to be the least of your worries.

    'The homeowner being careless does not absolve a burglar of the crime' - fair enough but conversely the exuse of 'oh, they'll get in anyway' does not mean a homeowner should just not bother at all to try to protect their property.

    Though, on an odd note, being infested with rats would probably be an excellent yukkuri deterrent as rats would slaughter the average yukkuri in seconds. Probably not exactly a great silver lining to an infestation though.

    SUN

    The best solution, bar none, is a dog, preferably a big one but a small one will do as well. A cat is fine too.

    TheodoricBlood

    Putting spikes on a windowsill can be a problem if you want to put potted plants out, or if you want birds to land there.

    The fact is, a normal house on its own should be enough protection from things like yukkuris. The problem arises when yukkuris go through those reasonable protections by breaking glass to get in. A home shouldn't have to be made a fort to keep out bouncing, talking pastries.

    That said, I wonder how long it would take yukkuris to learn what the sound of a pump-action shotgun is.

    AD

    Depends where you put the spikes. I was kind of imagining them going out to the side, or at an angle going downwards - so they'd catch a Yukkuri climbing up as opposed to one thats on the top. One climbing up would rip a good hole in its front or side pretty easily. It's not something that would stop the die-hard attempt to get in (and it'd suck against flying remi/flan types) but it'd deal with anything less without any trouble. Cats on the other hand would just jump straight past them, and they'd be no threat to birds that way either.

    TheodoricBlood

    The problem is that yukkuris can't really climb like that, like a snake could. If the windows were lower, maybe, but they're high enough that if a yukkuri wants to get there, it would need to jump up to it(and windows that were low enough for them to climb to, they probably wouldn't need to).

    For the spikes then to be effective against a yukkuri, they would need to be pointing up, to damage them as they landed. Which leads to the problems with birds and flowerpots and the like.

    Gitami

    Some houses have crawl spaces between the floorboards and the ground, that's where they get in, but I can't imagine how they'd bounce-smash their way through the floorboards.

    Plastic windows should make it difficult for even the determined to get in. But then the really determined might just smash the whole frame out that way.

    poweryoga

    Even if you protect your home well, there's still ways for yukkuris to get in. Lets not say yukkuris, lets say common household pests like ants, rats, flies, and possibly snakes. That window you opened to let air in on the 2nd floor? They'll climb/fly in through there. Leave that door open for a second while you dump the trash? Sneak in. Have a glass window? Well, rats can't smash windows but Yukkuris sure can. What about termites? That shit gets in no matter what you do. Same with groundhogs.

    You ever wonder how flies get into your house even though you have screen doors and screen windows on almost every freaking thing? Yukkuris are the same thing. The annoying thing about them is that if they want to, they can get into your house because they're intelligent enough to find holes.

    Like for robbers. You locked your door? They can yank it open with a crowbar if they wanted to. Are you saying you didn't adequately protect your home when you get robbed?

    Don't say people are lazy and don't protect their house, because chances are they can get in from unexpected places and methods. It all depends on the story setting, and most of them result from a moment of carelessness, or they break into the wooden cabins in gensokyo... which has very little security as is.

    AD

    "That shit gets in no matter what you do."

    Again you're falling on a flawed statement. Just because with enough determination these things can get in, it does not mean you should simply make it easy for any wandering yukkuri to get in. Going back to burglars - yes they can break in no matter how much security you have if they try but the vast, vast majority will look at a protected house and think "fuck it, lets hit someplace easier."

    Look into the pest control industry and you'll find similar thinking going on in pests - the majority of major infestations comes not from pests breaking directly into a protected home, but from those that have gotten into a different easy-to-access home that's attached to yours. Admittedly they still got in, but consider the damage they must have done to next door before they worked out how to get into your place - i've seen some absolute fucking horrors in my time in that respect. The 'protected' home has maybe a handful of roaches while the place next door is basically one huge nest with roaches everywhere. Similar thing with rats. Oh and rats may not be able to smash windows, by they can and will gnaw through damn near anything short of stone or metal, so it's not like they can't make their own entry points as yukkuri can do with windows.

    Again, back to the burglar anaology - given two identical houses would you go for the house with the locked door, or the one with the door that's left open? Given yukkuri seem to view everything as 'food' or 'an easy place' then the physical contents of a house don't matter, just that they can get in to it (though i admit some would probably spy something through a window and only think of taking a straight line to it, either way you're not trying to stop the die-hard, you're trying to stop the casual ones which just happen to spot an easy place with an easy way in). In this way although you cannot 100% stop all home invasions, you'd be likely to cut the number you do suffer to at least half, probably less.
    So yes, i will continue to call homeowners lazy and claim they don't protect their homes - because i've seen far too many real life examples of those that simply don't care about rats/roaches/spiders/termites/etc, so why should i expect those within the gensokyo setting to be any different?

    Gitami

    But with yukkuris, they don't see a protected house and think let's yukkuri elsewhere, they just see a house - even with barb wires and spikes they will see it as a yukkuri place and they'll get in. They may as well go into the locked house because they saw it first rather than the open door.

    The majority of them may die trying but then the dead don't learn and even if the dead can speak the other yukkuris will just ignore them and try to get in.

    It matters not whether the homeowners invited the pests on themselves, only that the pests are killed for entering without permission. That is what the blame falls on.

    AD

    I keep forgetting most Yukkuri actually are dumber than rats.
    Either way, the house with the barbed wire, with the spikes, or the grills, the yukkuri may try to get in but the majority will die trying or simply fail (and lets face it, i'd rather they die *outside* because i don't particularly wish to have to clean them off carpets and stuff.) You don't have to make it a fort, but some little measures are still liable to stop most.
    Hell, when it comes to yukkuri a rough enough welcome mat could be enough to at least render them incapable of simply slipping through an open door (or at least hurt them enough for them to make noise to alert you that some have tried). Grills in ventilation and chimneys are pretty standard to keep out birds and rats anyway, so no specific effort needed there - and a trap or two in a basement or crawlspace would put paid to attempts from there.

    Having a pet (or suitable guard Yukkuri, a Meiling/Flan combo would probably work wonders - hell, any relatively strong domestic would do) would kill those who get in... though it occurs to me some pets wouldn't kill/eat some yukkuri - wouldn't eating a chocolate-filled chen kill a dog/cat?

    Sock

    I don't really want to get too into this arguement, but I noticed a little oddity in here.

    One of the posters here said that Yukkuri can be easily killed by rats. Another said that they can be torn apart by small spikes that wouldn't even scratch human skin. And yet, people are saying that Yukkuri can easily bash through windows. Windows that leave incredibly sharp pieces flying around, that CAN hurt human skin. I think someone even said that a Yukkuri can bash a whole window frame down to get in.

    No one sees the problem with this?

    poweryoga

    "Again you're falling on a flawed statement"

    How is that a flawed statement?

    Because you failed to notice a small part of your house that isn't protected, they should be called lazy? Lets say a drainage pipe that you didn't even know existed or a small crack somewhere from the last storm. Is the homeowner lazy for spending money to protect their house against everything else but overlooked (or rather never noticed) those 2 spots?

    Hardly.

    and I will use your argument back against you... Lets look at the burglar assessment. How do you know from all the yukkuri break ins it's not the 50% that just happens? Most fanfics don't go into that detail, you're making way too many assumptions. And also like I said, it's much easier to break into a rudimentary wooden cabin that are more prevalent in gensokyo than a modern day brick and mortar house.

    Lastly, even a momentary lapse can result in an invasion. You can't call the homeowners lazy just because you've seen some lazy ones, that's going down the generalization route. That's like saying everyone who gets into a car accident is a terrible driver and has everything coming to them. It doesn't work that way.

    AD

    It's a flawed statement because you're claiming it to be an excuse to not even bother protecting ones home. Saying that 'they'll get in anyway' as an excuse to not protect your home is akin to a surgeon saying 'hey, everyone dies eventually anyway' as a reason to not bother operating on people.

    You claim that it's wrong to call someone who isn't aware of a flaw in their house lazy. I'm not going to argue that because that's perfectly acceptable - however you then go on to say "Is the homeowner lazy for spending money to protect their house against everything else but overlooked (or rather never noticed) those 2 spots?"
    This sort of homeowner is not the type i have issue with - they're not lazy because they have *tried* to protect their home. My problem is with those who don't even try and then still seem so shocked and horrified that Yukkuri keep getting in and wrecking shit. Going back to the surgeon example, it's the difference between a surgeon who does everything they can to save the patient but fails and a surgeon who doesn't even bother to operate then wonders why the patient died. The first is going to succeed far, far more often than the second ever will because they're actually attempting to operate.

    Also 'momentary lapse' does not really result in any real 'invasion' per se and with Yukkuri being much more obvious than most pests it's hard to imagine someone not noticing them if, say, they'd left the door open while taking out trash.
    It's when the owners either don't care or refuse to admit there's a problem that shit gets bad. It'd be like having yukkuri breaking into your house through the same hole day after day after day and wrecking your stuff each time and then deciding it's too much hassle to plug that hole up.

    I can't honestly say that the yukkuri break-ins we see aren't the 50% or whatever that make it in anyway, but i can say i've never seen any (other than this one) that show an actual yukkuri preventative measure in place (aside from, y'know, having something to kill the yukkuri once they're inside that is - which kind of defeats the point if you don't want them getting inside in the first place.)

    TheodoricBlood

    >>but i can say i've never seen any (other than this one) that show an actual yukkuri preventative measure in place
    I should point out that this particular "preventive measure" is in place because the titular 500 yen marisa is doing it, not because it was set up.

    AD

    In that case maybe i should be complaining that anon simply left the door open, letting the Reimu try and get back in.
    Either way it's been a pretty good argument we've had, lacking any 'smash/don't-smash' screaming matches a lot of longer comment chains seem to devolve into.

    Oh, and Sock - i vaguely recall a post somewhere implying that although Yukkuri can smash through windows, the one doing the actual smashing usually doesn't survive the experiance (and of course they're too stupid to know this beforehand.)

    TheodoricBlood

    You could complain about that, but I don't think that's fair. He had just thrown this one and its koyukkuris out, and was probably telling ot to go away (I don't read moonrunes). The time covered from the time anon pics the reimu up to throw it out and the marisa keeping it out is probably three minutes, four tops, with most of that time being taken up by walking from wherever in the house he was to the door.

    This reimu is just that stupid and that much of an asshole to try to reinvade the house the very minute the owner throws it out.

    >> i vaguely recall a post somewhere implying that although Yukkuri can smash through windows, the one doing the actual smashing usually doesn't survive the experiance (and of course they're too stupid to know this beforehand.)
    A full-grown yukkuri is actually probably big enough, massive enough and resilient enough to smash through a regular glass window and survive, and that the injuries it might recieve minor enough for them to have healed before anon got home to find his home invaded and wrecked.

    Gitami

    >Sock
    >Posted on 2009-02-22 08:59:3
    They die trying to get in. They have the power to bash in windows or entire window frame and the first one in gets cut by the glasses or that they simply land outside the broken glass debris.
    Having the power to bash in windows doesn't mean they can survive rat bites. Like a baseball player can be taken down by a guard dog.

    Spikes don't need to be sharp, just pointed enough that they can impale themselves on it with enough force, like when they try to bash the window.

    poweryoga

    >> because you're claiming it to be an excuse to not even bother protecting ones home

    I've never said that. My whole argument is that even if you protected your home, some of the stuff will get in no matter what you do. Overall, you don't have sufficient information to know that if the homeowners of the invasions are dimwits or just people who are on the unfortunate receiving half of the 50%. (or maybe they're anons who purposely want to let yukkuris in... who knows)

    Momentary lapses might involve leaving your window to let the air in during the day or opening the window to let the air circulate while you go shower or cook. It doesn't have to be the 3 minutes that it takes for you to walk downstairs and back up. What I always argue is that it only takes the robber 5 seconds to grab your stuff in an unlocked apartment while you're outside dumping out the trash. Even if yukkuris don't mess up your house totally in the time you're outside, they will still be able to break something.

    I think we're largely on the same page here, so lets stop it here. :p After all, there wouldn't be any fun yukkuri stories if they weren't able to get into the house at all.

    EasyModo

    And who knows, maybe the homes all over gensokyo are in fact well protected, but with thousands of homes, and countless yukkuris trying to break in every day, there are bound to be some cases where they get through.
    Perhaps, for each "home_invasion" story we see there are thousands of cases of the yukkuri being stopped or repelled by the defences, that we just don't see because the writers thought them uninteresting, or just didn't get to that phase yet.

    This

    >>"writers thought them uninteresting"
    THIS is why there's no "yukkuri_failing_to_invade_home" stories.
    Discussion fucking over.
    Hate these long-ass pointless banter/bullshit on the front of the comments page.

    AD

    Two things.
    First: There are plenty of ways to do interesting invasion failures, ranging from an anon gloating over his devilish defences, to focussing on yukkuri facing a variety of defences including less fatal - though more psychologically amusing - methods. Or perhaps even in the sense of a public information thing (like the 'how to care for your yukkuri' type images) on how to protect a home from invasion.
    There, three perfectly good ways to approach an interesting invasion failure story.

    Second: A discussion is only over when the people involved stop having it, not when some ass shows up an arbitrarily declares it over because he or she doesn't like it when other people talk.
    And just think! I wouldn't have bothered to post in this one again if you hadn't bumped it back to the front page! Way to fail at getting rid of what you hate there.

    That Guy

    >Hate these long-ass pointless banter/bullshit on the front of the comments page.

    So, so agree with this. Geez, aren't we suppose to take it easy at this site >_>

    Sock

    > So, so agree with this. Geez, aren't we suppose to take it easy at this site

    Judging from what makes up the majority of the site's content...no we aren't. But hey, it could be worse, we could be arguing about anime vs cartoons.

    This

    >>we could be arguing about anime vs cartoons
    Osamu Tezuka ripped off Will Eisner
    Hayao Miyazaki ripped off Walt Disney.
    Yoshihiro Tatsumi ripped off Alan Moore.
    Anime is a rip-off of cartoons.

    Gitami

    >Perhaps, for each "home_invasion" story we see there are thousands of cases of the yukkuri being stopped or repelled by the defences, that we just don't see because the writers thought them uninteresting, or just didn't get to that phase yet.

    That's a brilliant idea, I wish I had the skills to draw this. A showcase of bean baste brain hijinks.

    Sock

    >Osamu Tezuka ripped off Will Eisner
    > Hayao Miyazaki ripped off Walt Disney.
    > Yoshihiro Tatsumi ripped off Alan Moore.
    > Anime is a rip-off of cartoons.

    Y'see? only one comment on that subject, and I'm already loosing brain cells from how stupid it is. Hell, at least Yukkuri anti-logic is funny and entertaining.

    This

    >>only one comment on that subject, and I'm already loosing brain cells from how stupid it is
    Aym so good at trollin, aye do it subkonciously!
    Can't I make a civil jest without someone taking offence?

    Sock

    > Can't I make a civil jest without someone taking offence?

    Yeah, my comment was a little sharped tounged and packed with a good amount of butthurt. Bleh, taking what people say on the internet seriously is pretty damn dumb, and I apologize for any offense.

    But you would be surprised how many people actually think stuff like your last comment is absolute truth and swear by it.

    SUN

    Serious or not, everyone is influenced and inspired by something. This is a good thing, not bad.

    SonicZX

    >Hate these long-ass pointless banter/bullshit on the front of the comments page.

    It reminds me of that spam-bot that loved to fuck with that one picture. Okay it's not that bad but meh.