...so this is why all the pet yukkuris in this world are so fucked up.
Screw understanding, the only reason they behave like pets is because it was beaten into them.
Although I suppose if you want a perfectly safe pet yukkuri that will obey you unconditionally and won't associate with wild yukkuris, this is the way to go.
zidana123 said: ...so this is why all the pet yukkuris in this world are so fucked up.
Screw understanding, the only reason they behave like pets is because it was beaten into them.
Although I suppose if you want a perfectly safe pet yukkuri that will obey you unconditionally and won't associate with wild yukkuris, this is the way to go.
The thing is this is exactly how the majority of stories where yukkuri are trained to be pets are usually portrayed.
And a lot of them have beatings and discipline too.
Gold badge =/= Nicehead. That's just how hy835230's world works.
In fact, I believe this might be a criticism on the badge system--everyone automatically assumes that a badged yukkuri signifies a "good" yukkuri. In a way, yes, but in the sense on how convenient they are to humans.
Skribulous said: Actually, that too is to be expected.
No it's not. Find me another work where the final gold badge test is killing another yukkuri.
In fact, I believe this might be a criticism on the badge system--everyone automatically assumes that a badged yukkuri signifies a "good" yukkuri. In a way, yes, but in the sense on how convenient they are to humans.
I agree with that take on it though. The gold badges here have fallen under the very definition of 'scum,' being yukkuris that take away the easiness of others just so they can take it easy, but given the harshness of their training they seem like they're exemplary pets (at least where their interactions with their owners are concerned).
Skribulous said: In the context of this setting, yes it is.
I don't believe that it is. The indoctrination of pet yukkuris to believe wild yukkuris is uneasy is nothing new, sure. But such indoctrination doesn't require the pet yukkuris to kill another yukkuri before receiving their badge.
You're saying that it makes sense in context of the setting but you haven't supported that statement at all. What about the setting before this suggests specifically that the pet yukkuris were tested by having them kill another yukkuri?
Well, that's true. Yukkuri pet education seems to focus on keeping them convenient for human, their owner specifically and human society generally. Even the training to identify others without accessories can be seen as for human convenience because you don't want the owners getting into trouble with your pet killing other pets who accidentally lost their accessories.
I don't remember seeing anywhere that the pet training includes teaching them about how to act when there's no human to support them (e.g: yukkuri first aid), how to survive on their own, or how to build things and plan for the future.
Salem said: I don't remember seeing anywhere that the pet training includes teaching them about how to act when there's no human to support them (e.g: yukkuri first aid), how to survive on their own, or how to build things and plan for the future.
I've only seen that kind of thing in Hourai's Training Badged Yukkuri series about platinum badges.
Hy's yu world is shittier than the average yu world, every yukkuri is either extremely stupid even in yukkuri standars, ungrateful, scum or surprisingly cunnning shitheads.
This Yu World isn't exactly a good place to look for positive yukkuri treatment and representation, I mean, even in other stories, the ratio of "Fake Gold Pets" (best case, human convenient, worse case a pampered shit) and "True Gold Pets" (includes some degree of advanced morals and intellect) is way more in favor of True ones than in this story, and in those other stories the "fake or true" factor depends of breeder quality, skills or if some rich asshole payed a "tip" to the Badge Testers to turn a blind eye on some "scum aspects" of their dear pet.
I mean, look at the toilet training in this story, in 90% of the stories is about yukkuris using the proper toilet and not shitting everywhere, here they treat it like if it were breakfast, lunch or dinner, basically give it a predefined and routinary time, disregarding the biological needs. That should be the most obvious example of how bad the training is.
Hy's Yu World is Bad, period, nothing of value would be lost if it was Exterminatus...well maybe a few nice humans, but everything else specially the hy version of yukkuris? Good Riddance.
JusticeItEasy said: Hy's yu world is shittier than the average yu world, every yukkuri is either extremely stupid even in yukkuri standars, ungrateful, scum or surprisingly cunnning shitheads.
This Yu World isn't exactly a good place to look for positive yukkuri treatment and representation, I mean, even in other stories, the ratio of "Fake Gold Pets" (best case, human convenient, worse case a pampered shit) and "True Gold Pets" (includes some degree of advanced morals and intellect) is way more in favor of True ones than in this story, and in those other stories the "fake or true" factor depends of breeder quality, skills or if some rich asshole payed a "tip" to the Badge Testers to turn a blind eye on some "scum aspects" of their dear pet.
I mean, look at the toilet training in this story, in 90% of the stories is about yukkuris using the proper toilet and not shitting everywhere, here they treat it like if it were breakfast, lunch or dinner, basically give it a predefined and routinary time, disregarding the biological needs. That should be the most obvious example of how bad the training is.
Hy's Yu World is Bad, period, nothing of value would be lost if it was Exterminatus...well maybe a few nice humans, but everything else specially the hy version of yukkuris? Good Riddance.
zidana123 said: I don't believe that it is. The indoctrination of pet yukkuris to believe wild yukkuris is uneasy is nothing new, sure. But such indoctrination doesn't require the pet yukkuris to kill another yukkuri before receiving their badge.
You're saying that it makes sense in context of the setting but you haven't supported that statement at all. What about the setting before this suggests specifically that the pet yukkuris were tested by having them kill another yukkuri?
You're seriously asking for other instances of such methods in other stories when I've already clarified that this is the sort of thing you expect in {hy835230}'s world.
And then you pull off this
zidana123 said: I've only seen that kind of thing in Hourai's Training Badged Yukkuri series about platinum badges.
...No offense to Hourai, but really, now.
Even if you insist, I'm not even going to bother looking for them. Here, have a link to the story archive: http://www26.atwiki.jp/ankoss/ Have fun.
If you say munch munch or happiness while eating... That's a paddling. If you miss your hat... That's a paddling. If you poo poo outside the restroom... That's a paddling. Going against the training... ooh, you better believe that's a paddlin’.
Skribulous said: You're seriously asking for other instances of such methods in other stories when I've already clarified that this is the sort of thing you expect in {hy835230}'s world.
Nope. I'm asking you for examples from this specific comic. What specific past events makes you expect it? You've still not supported your claims with anything concrete.
Skribulous said: ...No offense to Hourai, but really, now.
Even if you insist, I'm not even going to bother looking for them. Here, have a link to the story archive: http://www26.atwiki.jp/ankoss/ Have fun.
First, that wasn't stated to you. And it has nothing to do with the context of our discussion. Our discussion is about why you feel that the behavior of the pet yukkuris in this story proves that they were indoctrinated due to being forced to kill another yukkuri, when I'm saying that the indoctrination could have come from any other, more standard method seen elsewhere in yukkuri fandom.
Second, I don't read japanese. My statement was that 'I'VE' only seen, etc, etc. Meaning "In my personal experience."
Clearly if an anko hasn't been translated to english and contains an instance of badged yukkuris being trained to survive on their own without humans, it is outside my experience and that I've not seen it; nor am I capable of seeing it.
There's absolutely no point in linking the japanese archieve to me because it doesn't address or disprove my point that I'VE not seen any work that contains yukkuris being trained for their own benefit in any way.
I'm not a fan of pure avoidance training. In Operant Conditioning, you need to remember to pair the stick with the carrot.
The only result of going against this training was--punishment. Mister Trainer vigorously used the training rod to beat Little Marisa's round round butt. Even though it didn't break the skin, it hurt terribly.
Little Marisa didn't understand. She was supposed to be a "Chosen Yukkuri," so why was she so suffering je?The training to be a "Chosen Yukkuri" began. In this training, everything that Little Marisa believed to be easy were prohibited. If she did them she would receive severe punishment from Mister Trainer.
First, she was no longer allowed to say "munch munch" or "happiness!" while eating. If she tried to speak she would be hit with with a punishment rod.The time for poo poo could not be changed, and poo poo had to be left in an appointed "restroom."
This was almost the same as being back in the restaurant. Every day Little Marisa had to endure the pain of having her tummy filled with poo poo.
Even so, she wasn't allowed to show any suffering, and had to greet Mister Trainer even more loudly with "Taking it easy with Mister!"A pet yukkuri shouldn't have any attachments to anything but her owner. Even her hat was not exempt from this rule.
Little Marisa had to go without her hat for two hours every day and was not allowed to sleep while wearing her hat. If she showed any misery at being without her hat, she was beaten and not allowed to eat lunch.