Well, i'm not sure if being more squeaky toylike would really be good three, it may "encourage" even more people to do stuff and some people aren't nice with squeaky toys...the poor fellas...
I don't know if people will do so, True Happiness was for a longer time more ambigous and the comments clearly weren't FF, taking aside the shitting and all.
So i'm not sure if people wil abide to your request now that the follow up opened the gates for them. I'm aok with either case, but i'm being realistic here. Since many people really restrained here, including myself, because of those damn diabetes >_>...
I'm going to request the same here.... not as a mod but as user. We have the follow up picture to post the abuse comments, and this is still non_violent as far as the picture is concerned.
just wondering, does the rule of respect rule also applies to non_violent stuff? just curious, not like i'm trying to refute or anything, but since you mentioned it, poweryoga.
It should (feelings as a user). I personally think about it like this: the rule of respect should be consistent with whatever tags there are. This helps keeps posts on topic as well as respectful to those that might be enjoying the picture.
Yeah, I'm willing to think rule of respect should also apply to non_violent. Differentiating between family_friendly and everything else works as it is, but the non_violent tag should also be considered if the family_friendly tag is not present.
But really, considering the usual ambiguities of this sort of stuff, I say users should just keep other users in mind before making posting comments. The people who enjoy FF do not appreciate somebody going in and going 'DIE SHIT MANJUUS DIE', and likewise, the people who enjoy yukkuri abuse do not appreciate somebody going in and saying how it's sick and wrong.
So really, just think before you post. Is it appropriate? Does it add anything to the discussion on the image? Are you trying to provoke somebody?
I know it's not really enforceable, but common-sense should be exercised. It would make browsing here a whole lot easier and more pleasant.
Agreed. The rules apply to pictures, not the series as a whole. We know this series is not family_friendly but there are later pictures where you can discuss the abusive aspects of it. Enough abuse pictures around that you shouldn't need to toss those comments in non_violent threads as well.
Non violent is not the same thing as family friendly. While I don't say free reign to say abuse comments in these pictures, there's a reason that 'non violent' and 'family friendly' are differentiated between. We discussed this already when people like anelaid were blowing the place up over the issue. And came to the difference between non violent and _family friendly_.
>>I say users should just keep other users in mind before making posting comments.
Which is what we did. It seemed family friendly at first (on the FF/NV issue again, it was stated to list things as FF first), so abuse comments weren't made. Then it became apparent that it was not FF. Abuse comments should be expected on abusive series (and the discussion on them last time also pertained to them as series as a whole). There's plenty of full out family friendly pictures you can't make abuse comments in abuse series.
>>does the rule of respect rule also applies to non_violent stuff?
When I emailed Shii to put up the rule of respect, I noted both the non-violent and family_friendly tags. I stated that there should be no abuse comments in FF pictures. Many series may seem to have FF moments, but due to their nature and what happens, should not be categorised as FF (and due to oversensitive FF members chancing upon the abuse), so NV is a different concept and used for those. This is one of them. People who enjoy FF may not appreciate people saying 'DIE MANJUU DIE', but such things on abuse series is fine. Again, like this. It'd be ridiculous if you couldn't. Shii agreed and put up the rule.
In short, the rule of respect is, as Shii approved: no abuse comments in /family friendly/. Not non_violent. Type is decided by series as a whole. And, to stress again, non violent and family friendly can be similar, but are not the same things.
I know where you're coming from Tea, and I understand your argument completely, but I'm still with ID and poweryoga about this. There's something to be said about willful ignorance.
Well, if you are in OYP, willfull ignorance is out of place, maybe in Danbooru and other non abuse sites it would be ok, but if you come here, you are agreeing to ditch the wilfull ignorance for accepting everything and just focusing on what you like.
Of course the thing is....Non_Violent sometimes is tagged to something that isn't even nice, like trashtalking yukkuris, shitting, pissing, insultive yukkuris, etc. Hell even those 1 shot orgy home invasions that are rage worthy can be non_violent.
So i think we should define a better standar for when something that isn't labelled FF should be treated close to a FF in the comment respect matters.
Anyway, i really think, Willful Ignorance, has no place here, regardless of what one likes the most, when one is in OYP they have to brace to the fact that everything yukkuri is here, so we need to come with the idea that we may find stuff we don't like, and brace for the impact. It's like going to 4chan and expect no insults, racist comments, or net douchebaggery, same for encyclopedia dramatica, when you go there, you have to make up your mind for it to be ready for the impact so you can properly check what you want.
>>It's like going to 4chan and expect no insults, racist comments, or net douchebaggery
And going to pages of an abuse series and expecting no abuse comments is... Okay, there's this page where there's no violence and everything's very happy. People who only like FF will be very pleased. BUT, this is abuse orientated. People who like abuse, will be attracted to it for the abuse, and will probably be talking about abuse. It is to expected that there will be abusive comments about them, and the FF fans should know that. And accept the fact that, despite as cutesy and happy this part is, it's part of a story where the yukkuris are tortured/maimed/forced to suffer, and that people are going to attracted to it (even more so for some because of the cute NV parts), so there probably will be talking about those kind of things. Stuff we don't like extends; you may not like the fact these nice yukkuris get killed or harmed, but that's what happens. It's abuse orientated. Not family friendly. Abuse fans are going to talk about it. You may not like the crushing of the happiness and that some people may actually enjoy it, just as you find stuff you don't like, but that's part of what goes on here. If there's going to be any ignorance, ignoring of stuff you don't like as per usual, it should be on the part of the FF crowd as they're in abuse territory. The FF fans should manoeuvre around the parts of the /abuse/ story they don't like- that includes comments, as I said, abuse comments on abuse series aren't out of place-, rather than the abusers having to do so and pussyfoot around on a very own abuse story.
It's a general point now as well, as opposed to directed to this one. And hell, I'm not saying it's a free reign to go insane and make truckloads of abuse comments (Only AIE would do that). One thing's for definite: no abuse comments in FF. I'll even argue against anyone who says there should be, or makes them. But not being able to make abuse comments on parts of abuse series is... ridiculous, quite unrealistic, and rather unfair to the abusers.
@Tea: I understand where your coming from. But, if it's as you say that it is an abuse series, then there are going to be early images that aren't abuse oriented. Yes, the series isn't family friendly, but wouldn't/shouldn't the abuse discussions be on the images that have the abuse?
Or to be put another way: The rule as you defined it is based entirely on the tag. No abuse comments in FF. No FF comments in abuse. So what happens on a pic like this one? Technically, free reign. Abusers happily make their comments since it's part of a series. But since it's not an abuse-tagged picture, that would mean that people would/should be allowed to comment about how cute they think it is. Doesn't that just piss off both sides and start flames?
I'm not saying there's a definitive solution, but shouldn't the tags be indicative of what you should post? Like on this one. I don't see ff. Fine, I won't talk about how cute it is. I also don't see abuse. So I won't talk about how I want to crush it. I do see feeding koyukkuri. So fair game should be talking about maybe what it would be like to have a ko as a pet. Discussing what to feed it. Something like that.
Perhaps we should have a "becomes abuse" tag for early pics what be cute/harmless? And keep the non-abuse early pics in the non-abuse discussion rule whatsit... thing... handrule.
Quite frankly I don't really see the big deal. If its a series then there's going to be abuse pictures later on, so I don't really see why you have to talk about "oh shit yeah they killed these fuckers later" right in this picture. Of course we can talk about the series ... but you really gotta go out of your way to do something like that. And like Tea mentioned... only hamatek does it.
Granted what we're talking about is a very small subset (limited mostly to kiri's works) but let's just not let it get out of hand here. We can open up a discussion in the fangroup forums and not clutter up the page here.
I don't see the big deal about making abuse comments like "oh shit they killed these fuckers", or conversations on inspirations for abuse, seeing as that's what happens. I'd say yes, abuse discussions should probably take place on the ones with abuse, but prohibiting abuse comments on abuse series is dumb.
@Hourai: Yes, they should be allowed to comment on how cute it is. And you know, they actually did, and do all over the place. That doesn't piss people off, because I can see how. It's when it turns into "this is cute, why did it have to get abused", "this is cute, the abuse is boring and sad" people get annoyed. Again- the FF people know it's part of abuse, and that people attracted to abuse are going to be here for the abuse, and they are going to talk about the abuse. Sure, the early images don't appear abuse orientated, but once they do, the FF people know what they're getting into.