First of All her demands outside of no abuse to yukkuris are unreasonable.
Factory do produce stuff, they aren't the "dens of abuse" that some people may think, those are some antique and unproductive shit long ago dropped for the sake of productivity and monetary benefit.
And Exterminations are many times necessary, yukkuris do act like pests many times.
And don't get me started with food and shelter, they barely reach monster fauna status, shouldn't stretch the humans pacience demmanding shelter and food when, regardless of their speaking and all, they follow animalistic lives.
Now if it's about good ones not being abuse for no reason since they clearly don't deserve it? then i'm ok with that.
Finally if yukkuris want to be treated well, they should treat others well too, let's recall that 90% of the abuse to yukkuris is out of how badly they deal and treat non yukkuri.
So Reimu, that boot in the face was well deserved. Try better next time with less demmands and more real propositions.
You know what's really funny about all this talk of yukkuris being irrational , unreasonable , hypocritical , ignoant etc. ? When it comes down to it , most people are no less hypocritical or conceited than the yukkuri of many comics. And as for the extreme end of the misbehavior spectrum - the deibus , bawizas and so on - I assure you that there are more than enough people with a worldview very similiar to theirs.
Yeah, yet the key aspect of yukkuris is their numbers and what usually leads them to that shitheadness.
Basically while there are human shitheads and scum, they aren't as many as in the yukkuris in the general human population, the main bulk of humanity is being more neutral than anything. Another aspect is that unlike yukkuris, humans have better chances of changing both from a individual perspective to a general perspective, it's well, rare to see yukkuris changing, it's agreed than when they do, it's a hint that they may have potential to become good ones.
Yet in the very end, what makes yukkuris worse than humans, and more conceited, irrational, unreasonable, hypocritial, etc. It's their simplistic and absolutistic nature.
Humans can be shit, but they are complex and flexible, so they are able to change ways or attitudes, they are able to critize themselves, they are able to truly tell when they are fucking up and admit it.
Yukkuris? hell no, they don't, "cuz it would be uneasy to admit you are fucking up, apologize and make up for it! it's easier to live in denial of your wrongs and blame everything else for it." only a minority of humans act like that, since we aren't simpleminded and absolutistic in our mental nature, so at some point we question our ways, and realize that ironically we would feel more in ease by admiting them and trying o fix them.
You can say that in the end, Yukkuris evolved into creatures that take it too easily, in a world that isn't ever easy, that needs limits or that makes it's inhabitants "work for their good ends and their easiness". Yet yukkuris go on defying that, trying to force the world to be ever easy for them and only them, not understanding that's not how the world works, and that they can't expect the world to follow their ways.
Even we, humans, who shape up the world with our cities and such, know that we can't demmand the world to fit our needs and follow our rules, a Tornado will happen, regardless of how destructive and bothersome it can be for humans, floods will still happen regardless if we just build a nice town recently in the place were the flood wil happen, pollution happens if we generate it, no matter how much we may like the "green sights", and so on.
Majority of Yukkuris = Average Cartoon Bad Guys in Cute Critter skins (No matter how much you prove them wrong, no matter how much the world tells them to please change, no matter if their mothers calls them for christmas, they won't change. They are dead set to their inclination and mindset, and won't fix it, and they think it's fine to be like that since the world should be the one changing for them.)
Majority of Humanity = Well Written Novel Average Guys (with their flaws, their issues, their dick aspects, etc., but overall, being able to either grow up, or at least change a bit for the better, rarely they don't change, and it's usually agreed that it's not positive when they don't.)
I disagree: humans aren't that flexible especially... children. And yukkuris are basically like childrens: very few needs, they cry when something goes differently than planned, they poo around, aren't clever and use a simple language that goes more through 'concepts' than tons of words.
And exactly like children, they never admit to be wrong: not because they are evil, but because they cannot even understand why thinking of their very own easyness is evil. Why does mister farmer attack me? I was the first to come here, mister carrot is mine! Why does uneasy mister beat me, mister sofa is so easy! And how could I blame them? A carrot is meant to be eaten, it's not like they can see mister farmer on the carrot all the day. And mister sofa exists so that yukkuris can relax on him, he doesn't complain!They simply don't understand things like private property.
That's why you cannot really reason with them: the best thing that they can say is "yukkuri doesn't understand, yu...".
It's worth of reasoning the fact that a yukkuri that agrees with humans is necessarly 'good'. Personally I find it quite sad, like those dogs who are extremely trained: yes, they can be happy and all... but there's not too much left of what they originally were. It's like they are denying their nature.
I don't know if it's more hypocrite a yukkuri who wants to take it easy or a guy who decides who lives and who dies, forcing his rules on being who cannot even understand them, most of the cases. And rewarding just those who obey. Fun fact: I believe that if someone would free a "reformed yukkuri" into the wild it would revert in about two days, or simply die.
(I hope not to post a novel like this again, but the argument was too nice to be ignored) Oh, just one more thing! A yukkuri that tells you "shitty mister fork Reimu sweet-sweets or drop dead easy", if we want to be fair and righteous, should be pushed away. Not killed or tortured.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to burn yukkuris because winter is coming.
I'm not taking any side here, but what you just said reminded me of a fun fact about young kids. They don't understand the concept of "I/me/my/mine/etcetera and you/your/yours" and think "Why is everyone calling themselves "!?" Everyone's name is I? <insert name here> can't understand!?
Yeah, right! Also pay attention that Yukkuris are like animals, just with some dialogue properties. They behave just like cats: if a cat jumps on a table to eat your lunch (it happened to me when I was a kid ;_;) it is a BAD cat. If it doesn't do it anymore because you scared it, and now it doesn't run away when you want to pet him because YOU like it, it is a good cat.
Also, Warui: there isn't any side here. Mine is not a critique: I just wanted to show that there are other perspectives beside our own.
Children actually can understand when they do wrong, don't mistake the assumptions of innocence and such for lack of not being able to tell the difference of doing wrong or not.
Of course if you mean small kids to babies, that's another story and you may have a point, but in their case they are in a developing stage, something that adults yukkuris can't be compared with, since their
Besides, i think you are mistaking "agreeing" with mister humans with "understanding" mister humans.
As many works show, the yukkuri ways aren't friendly with the very world they live with, basically they are going against anything that defy their misunderstandings of the world.
A Good yukkuri isn't a yukkuri that agrees with a human, but a yukkuri that understands the world, that is able to understand humans to some degree and if they agree with mister human, is because they understand their position and agreed to it.
And what "reformed" yukkuris need, isn't treatment like candidate for pets, but teaching them aspects of nature and if possible to return them to the wild in groups and tell them to make a clan of their own, since their chances are higher like that.
Another detail we should consider is what i mentioned a few times in the past, the whole deal of "Simplistic and Absolutistic Nature" vs "Complex and Flexible Nature". Many of us think that a good yukkuri, regardless if they aren't smart types and such, are creatures that became complex and flexible, instead of remaining simplistic and absolutistic. When they reach such stage, they understand better, reason better and act better.
So i think it's more hypocritical a yukkuri demmanding the world to work the way they want it, even if that's not how the world works right, than a human telling them "no yukkuri that's not how the world works like, try to understand or just stop whinning about things not going your way."
All right. There're lots of perspectives. Actually I'm the forgiving type. I don't get mad or even annoyed at yukkuris acting kiddish or stuck-up. Not unless the level of shitheadedness is on par with the shitty komarisa in Argue It Easy series.
Well while i get a laugh at yukkuri smacking from time to time, if i were to have to deal with them in real life, i don't think i would be as violent i can sound here, specially with bothersome and annoying types, shitheads may still get a death by the boot treatment anyway.
And maybe we should move the discussion to the fanfic group to avoid clogging more walls of texts here or we should call it a day and drop the discussion all togheter?
I only wrote two walls in all the time I had been here, and I'm usually against it unless it's required. Personally I don't need a thread on YFT, what I wanted to show was already written. Again is not a fight but a perspective.
In real life? Hell, I would keep a Remilia on the balcony! "Uuuu-uuu! Uuu-uu!" "Go! I unleash thou!"
Hmm i think i'll end the discussion with a little food for some post discussion thinking.
Many times we make paralels of similar human attitudes in yukkuris and such, and many times we say many humans act like shitheads.
But think this, imagine humanity, with all their prowess at making stuff, weapons, houses, cities, etc. And with their bad capacities like pollution and such.
Imagine them, with the whole yukkuri race attitude and mindset, and their overzealous focus on "easiness no matter what".
Dropping. No actually I wasnt going for a discussion at all.
In real life? Heck I don't even have enough guts to give my dog a spanking. (BTW My dog once went pee-pee on my hand. Hahahahaha) Stuff like finger flicking and pulling braids, mean words, okay. But no yu-guro in real life. Mental and emotional torture, even less.
I think you are misinterpreting Discussion with Flame War or something.
One doesn't necessarily "fight" in a discussion, hell this was darn civil, and i'm glad it wasn't that agressive. It also makes me realize how less "Agressive Discussions we had" lately, they still are around, but not as much as a few months ago.
Well Warui you have to think that the FF aren't the majority, but part of a minority, i meant the majority of the yukkuris, aka scums, stuck ups, etc.
And being honest i wouldn't like it either way, but, if we base on the yukkuri majority, humanity with their ways and mindset. . .God help the world, we would probably ruin it way faster...
Ehhwot me? Nah discussion is like exchanging and evaluating ideas. All I did was pull a Soundwave joke and muse about how very young kids might talk like yukkuris.:)
Oh and I just meant, I wouldn't mind human nature changing to "take it easier" in real sense. Those good ol days where life wasn't a busy stream of works after works you know.
Neither do I. Of course stuff like this is daily issue for many people, like "does human nature make progress without sacrificing the lesser impossible?" and "Is the current development of mankind truly desirable?" and stuff like that. Obviously there's no way I wanna go into that in this place.lol
CHILDREN SOMETIME DO THE SAME THINGS AS YUKKURIS...! YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO LIKE VIOLENCE AGAINST YUKKURIS OR FIND THEM ANNOYING IF YOU DON'T FIND ANYTHING THAT'S SIMILAR ANNOYING! DO YOU WANT TO KILL CHILDREN TOO?
>>When it comes down to it , most people are no less hypocritical or conceited...deibus , bawizas and so on - I assure you that there are more than enough people with a worldview very similiar to theirs.
Basically, "humans do this too, so you can't dislike yukkuris for it". I swear PostItEase returned for a minute there. That argument pretty much fails, seeing as I imagine part of the reason why people can like brutal violence against yukkuris is because... they're not people. There's a fair few of us here that like yukkuri violence and abuse, but not guro (no bad to anyone who does).
Tea, i think that Anon Kun just wanted to give an alternate perspective with an "anti justificated abuse" even though there are many good reasons to smack around yukkuris, of course some folks don't need them, but, many regarldess if they want or not, would have reasons to be mean to the manjuus, usually because the manjuus are mean to them and acting like they own the world.
Huh, anti-abuse. The message seems to be "humans do this too, so it's fine if yukkuris do it, you're a hypocrite for disliking yukkuris if they do it". It's not really discussion, it's just attacking other peoples perspectives. To be honest, that's really tiring because it's been done over and over and the message is redundant. Some humans do bad things, most yukkuris do bad things, but their bad behaviours are totally okay because humans do them too. Oh wait, you dislike yukkuris for it but not humanity as a whole? Hypocrite! Repeat ad ad nauseum.
How the fuck is this “yukkuri logic”? Humans are the most powerful species on the planet, and the only one operating largely with a constant surplus of both food and shelter. Operating under the Parker Principle, the Yukkuri’s soapbox demands are sound. Don’t wanna give the surplus to the Yus? Maybe actually fucking use it.
I feel like I should clarify that my initial question, despite my choice of language and the mini-rant following it, was indeed sincere. I am sincerely interested in hearing the rationale behind this being in the yukkuri logic pool.
I feel like I should clarify that my initial question, despite my choice of language and the mini-rant following it, was indeed sincere. I am sincerely interested in hearing the rationale behind this being in the yukkuri logic pool.
@Fluffy_katana Adding to a discussion that ended 12 years ago isn't really the best way to learn. You should use the forum instead.
I feel like I should clarify that my initial question, despite my choice of language and the mini-rant following it, was indeed sincere. I am sincerely interested in hearing the rationale behind this being in the yukkuri logic pool.
Trying to start a discussion with a 12 years old comment, also if you are honest yukkuri are the bottom of the food chain, their life has the same value as a bacterium....... the biggest law for yukkuri protection are for pets and also with that they are considered a product rather than a living being
Trying to start a discussion with a 12 years old comment
I was replying to exactly zero of those comments, and was in fact referring to the POOL title.
also if you are honest yukkuri are the bottom of the food chain, their life has the same value as a bacterium.......
That’s just demonstrably false. Yukkuri are consistently portrayed as being on the third trophic level.
the biggest law for yukkuri protection are for pets and also with that they are considered a product rather than a living being.
Okay, but what is occurring and what is ethical are not always the same thing (and, in reality, seldom are), so NONE of what you said *actually* refutes Reimu’s soapboxing.
Even if it did, sound logic can lead to a factually incorrect conclusion if the premise is faulty, and unsound logic can lead to a factually correct conclusion by sheer coincidence, and thus the refutation doesn’t prove Reimu’s logic flawed on any level. This is quite literally Logic 101.
How the fuck is this “yukkuri logic”? Humans are the most powerful species on the planet, and the only one operating largely with a constant surplus of both food and shelter. Operating under the Parker Principle, the Yukkuri’s soapbox demands are sound. Don’t wanna give the surplus to the Yus? Maybe actually fucking use it.