Hmm i honestly think that only in the last panel she's full blown arrogant, in the previous ones, the thought globes actually make her sound appreciative of the owner and apologetic for pooping in the wrong place.
It's just almost expired bean paste. Lots of people can take it easy with sweets after all. But then, if you know it is something's shit you won't eat it...
The whole idea of giving someone's else your shit as some delicacy and expect grattitude, etc. Is arrogant in a way, regardless of what that shit is made of.
Many creatures can eat feses and stuff, but that doesn't mean we should act arrogant and demmand gratitude to such creatures.
My take on this phenomenon: Yukkuri's memories are in their bean paste. When Reimu defecated, she managed to somehow rid herself of her nice qualities along with the expiring bean paste, hence the gradual progression from nicehead to shithead.
@Corbun I actually think its good up until the last panel, where I suppose you could say that it just shat out its kindness.
I would also give some psychoanalysis stuff to defend the yukkuris action in the last panel, but that wouldn't change the fact that: A. The Anon, and us, probably wouldn't care. and B. The yukkuri would probably still be punished even if the anon, or us, cared about the psychoanalysis junk.
If you want to hear the psychoanalysis stuff, just ask.
@maximusfive tbh you're right i don't think i even thought what is aid through since the second panel didn't say ANYTHING arrogant, and she even apologized (in thought) so it shows it wasn't intent. then again the third panel i don't think she intends it, i think she merely doesn't understand what she is implying to "mister". also i love anything that falls under psychology so i wouldn't mind hearing your analysis
Doesn't say anything arrogant, but unfortunately the action of giving others shit (which they themselves won't touch and complain about, so the intent is pretty much there) and then wanting to be thanked for it is. You can say the exact opposite using the same examples and you'd be right too, which goes for pretty much all psychology junk.
@corbun Its actually quite simple. A Yukkuri thinks that 'taking it easy' is the 'greatest' thing in life, therefore anything 'easy' is 'desirable'. Yukkuri's, being utterly unable to picture ANYTHING else in life as being as great as 'Taking it easy', therefore believe that even other creatures must have the same standards. Whether that smacks of arrogance, or merely stupidity/ignorance, is a matter of personal opinion. So, BECAUSE Yukkuris believe that, they think that giving another creature something 'easy', is indeed a great generosity on their part, regardless of whether or not the other creature thinks the item is 'easy'. In turn, because this yukkuri believes her 'poo' is 'very easy', she actually believes she is doing something 'generous' by giving it to her owner. Therefore, in context to the yukkuri, it is doing something 'nice' and 'kind', and not something 'arrogant' or 'degrading'. (I will point out that I could be wrong there, maybe it is being arrogant and I'm just over analyzing.) In the end that means that, by YUKKURI standards, this Reimu is behaving 'good' and commendable. Of course, by OUR standards, the Reimu is being arrogant and degrading towards us, which is 'bad' behavior. That then would lead into a discussion of how does one judge what is truly 'good' and what is truly 'bad', and even the question of "are we even truly qualified to determine what is 'good' and what is 'bad'?". But that's all philosophy stuff that we probably shouldn't get into on here, and frankly, I don't feel like getting into that kind of discussion anyway. XP
I'd say ignorance due to a yukkuri's mindset, just like how we can not possibly imagine how an octopus or an iguana thinks.
Also, to judge if a yukkuri is good is pretty simple. Just ask it a couple of questions that, if answered in the right way, would immediately point out a Shithead or a Nicehead. Judging by how this Reimu is acting, I'd say she really thinks what she's doing is a good thing, and that her Mister would actually enjoy it.
The Mister would then either point out to his Reimu that he does not want her Bean Paste, or he could just eat it anyway due to the fact that his Reimu is nice and the thought was good. We eat bee vomit on a daily basis (honey) and plant testes (fruit) and parade a plant's sexual organs everywhere (flowers). In the end we're pretty fucked up ourselves, but it's okay because if it doesn't kill or hurt you, then it's alright.
And based on your comments, Tea, I gather you don't think highly of Psychology.
Well, if it's a good-natured yukkuri making an inaccurate judgment, is it fair to treat it like it was scum, who in all actuality it was mistaken? Most Niceheads I've seen learn after a scolding, and never do the misdeed again. The fact that she thinks "thank you" and "sorry" indicate that she may be a Nicehead. Sorry if the walls of text irritate you, but it's people's own preferences if they want to discuss yukkuri psychology or not, just as it's people's own preferences to like family-friendly or abuse. Now, in the interest of saving bandwidth, I shut up.
But that's simply a cover for, or turn into "it doesn't deserve this treatment". Not to mention the inevitable attempts to convert people and convince them they're wrong in how they think yukkuris should be treated. Take such discussions to the group.
That's all cute and all but, you 2 remember that usually yukkuris DON'T think their poo is easy at all, and if anything the act of "expelling it" is what they consider easy.
And in general yukkuri standars are fucked up and wrong, after all, a standar that dictates that someone without a damned hat is uneasy and should die or be bullied, isn't something that should be respected out of "well they think different".
Seriously Maximusfive, what's wrong with you, you had been overanalyzing stuff like crazy lately trying to, from what it looks like, justify the crap yukkuris do through wannabe if interpretations or "you don't understand them" the thing is that humans in general do understand them, way too well, that's the problem, we understand yukkuris more than they understand us or others, so in general people deem them as lost cases until proven otherwise.
Well, that's not my point. I'm just saying that is a yukkuri is good, don't waste it. I'm not here to "convert" people. My agenda is clearly stated, and I hide nothing when I write. I mentioned earlier I'm not anti-abuse.
If it was saying something like "eat my poo-poo, shitty slave!" or "here's a treat! Sorry for being so generous!" THEN we are most likely dealing with a Deibu. Kind of how (not LIKE, how) a cat brings a dead mouse to it's owner, thinking it's done a great hunt and that it can feed it's family. Not saying yukkuris are cats, just saying this particular Reimu's actions remind me of what a cat does. Now, let's agree not to push the issue and leave it as it is, and allow visitors to this sight to make their own conclusions based off of our discussions.
But it doesn't matter if it's good or not, and it's also equally likely to not be. And you are trying to convert people: it doesn't matter if it's good or not, but you're insistent on pushing that it's good. Anyway, if it's a good yukkuri it's more excellent for abuse to some.
If you wish to overanalyze, justify/unjustify their treatment, take it to the discussion group. Let's just leave people to make their own conclusions looking at the fun.
"It's okay to thank me/yukkuri name" is already one of the phrases part of the black list that points out when a yukkuri is bad.
Plus don't compare bringing back a mouse to the house to giving shit to eat to the owner, one is a useful act that also shows the animal's respect and awknowledgement of ownership of the mister, the other is insultive, even between yukkuris, you try to make a yukkuri eat the "easy mister poo" and you'll get it berating you and insulting you for daring to make it eat the "uneasy mister poo".
So this Reimu is arrogant, this reimu either way will get smacked because while we can read what she thinks, mister won't and how she told him to eat her shit will probably earn her a beating and giving others their poo is pretty much a way yukkuri insults others, regardless if they consider it "easy" or not, but they usually think that "giving it to others is aok, but if they dare to give it to yukkuri they are insulting yukkuri, etc."
I'm not pushing that it's good, I'm pushing that it MAY be good based off of it's words. I realize that most situations it turns out that the yukkuri is a scumbag, but hey, maybe this one isn't. There are exceptions, even with yukkuri. Besides, yukkuri in the end are whatever you want them to be. Due to the lack of a conclusion to this comic, it is impossible to judge whether or not this is a Shithead or a Nicehead. So, as I stated earlier, I'm not trying to convert people, I'm not pushing anything on anybody (just stating something with the evidence that's available), just making deductions, and we should end this line of conversation and allow others to make their own deductions. Please, think of the Bandwidth!
Just drop it here, guys. If you wish to continue to wall-of-text over subjective interpretations that don't really have any benefit or mean much, find each other on the google group and email each other. And if you do want to in the future, it might be best to start there. That way, you can save bandwidth, leave people to come to their own conclusions and leave space for things that actually are beneficial (e.g. translations) from the start.
In this case, I was analyzing this ONE picture, NOT all of yukkuri-dom. Although you certainly can apply that analysis to other yukkuri pictures if you want. I brought it up here, WEEKS ago for the record, because: A. Corbun asked me to. B. This is one of the few cases we get a glimpse at the yukkuris thought process, and said thought process, at least in the first two panels, implies this yukkuri is 'nicer' then its words indicate.
I kinda included the whole "cataloguing yukkuris as animals from the previous discussions" as part of your sudden "rush" of overanalyzing.
I just felt it was damn weird you suddenly have this massive surge of analyzing and over analyzing.
And again, giving someone else your shit to eat isn't nice by default unless proven otherwise, specially when if someone did the same to you, you wouldn't like it either, and yukkuris DON'T like when someone tries to make them eat their shit, they feel as insulted as any people would if they did it to them.
Maybe yukkuris think it's okay to give people shit? I don't know, but I thought we were done with this topic already. I must've refreshed this page more times then an Alice refreshes in a week. I'm going over to the google group now to carry on this conversation, so please, let's all stop posting in the comments section now.
@JIE In order to avoid restarting that animal discussion, I'll refrain from commenting on it.
giving someone else your shit to eat isn't nice by default unless proven otherwise
I never said it was, I was just giving one possible explanation for why this particular yukkuri was doing it, and why it thought it was a 'good' idea.
Though, as I said in my comment before it, the yukkuri is guaranteed to be punished. Whether the punishment is a "I don't think your poo is 'easy', so don't 'give' it to me." scolding and a light punishment, or an all-out horrific torture and death, is up to the readers imagination. This particular story wasn't continued, after all.
My interpretation of this picture is different from HankySpank/Skribulous's take on it. I don't think that this picture is supposed to show an evolution of the yukkuri's attitude from grateful to inconsiderate. I think the point is to show the gap between the yukkuri's words and its intentions, and how its poor ability to express itself makes its intentions seem more rage-inducing.
Not that the offer in the last panel wouldn't be annoying regardless of the intention behind it, but "Hey, my poop is actually nice, I bet Mister would like it" -- especially considering that its poop ~really is~ bean baste, and humans have been shown in other panels deliberately eating it -- comes across better (misguided but considerate) than an arrogant-sounding "eat my shit."
@corbun Its actually quite simple. A Yukkuri thinks that 'taking it easy' is the 'greatest' thing in life, therefore anything 'easy' is 'desirable'. Yukkuri's, being utterly unable to picture ANYTHING else in life as being as great as 'Taking it easy', therefore believe that even other creatures must have the same standards. Whether that smacks of arrogance, or merely stupidity/ignorance, is a matter of personal opinion. So, BECAUSE Yukkuris believe that, they think that giving another creature something 'easy', is indeed a great generosity on their part, regardless of whether or not the other creature thinks the item is 'easy'. In turn, because this yukkuri believes her 'poo' is 'very easy', she actually believes she is doing something 'generous' by giving it to her owner. Therefore, in context to the yukkuri, it is doing something 'nice' and 'kind', and not something 'arrogant' or 'degrading'. (I will point out that I could be wrong there, maybe it is being arrogant and I'm just over analyzing.) In the end that means that, by YUKKURI standards, this Reimu is behaving 'good' and commendable. Of course, by OUR standards, the Reimu is being arrogant and degrading towards us, which is 'bad' behavior. That then would lead into a discussion of how does one judge what is truly 'good' and what is truly 'bad', and even the question of "are we even truly qualified to determine what is 'good' and what is 'bad'?". But that's all philosophy stuff that we probably shouldn't get into on here, and frankly, I don't feel like getting into that kind of discussion anyway. XP