The point is, if you do something that's "perfectly natural" too much and with too much vigor (Assuming you're referring to violence and cruelty), it's not longer natural and falls into the "crazy" category.
>>I think he's trying to ask a legitimate question. Since yarnoul is a violence junkie, he certainly isn't asking why they're poking and prodding baby reimu to tears. His question is why the observers are performing an act of kindness to a defenseless sentient creature. The answer is so simple I really shouldn't have to answer it. To a human being born into what is not a poverty-stricken society, such an action is what should come naturally. I suppose I should have nothing but sympathy for he that could not understand this.
>>The point is, if you perform acts of violence and cruelty too often and with too much vigor, it's no longer natural and falls into the "crazy" category. When someone performs an act of unneccessary violence at all, with or without vigor, that person is put into an institution and kept away from civilized beings until they learn right and wrong.
>>The answer is so simple I really shouldn't have to answer it.
It's because you can't. You're stuck on common decency and tradition.
>>To a human being born into what is not a poverty-stricken society, such an action is what should come naturally.
Every society has its poverty-stricken parts. Naturally? Nature dictates that we kill other creatures and feast on them to survive. Just because we've been spoiled by modern conveniences like grocery stores does not mean the instinct to kill is gone. And what better thing to kill than a prepared food item? Food item, good sir, not creature.
>>When someone performs an act of unneccessary violence at all, with or without vigor, that person is put into an institution and kept away from civilized beings until they learn right and wrong.
See, this is all you people can do, is play at words. I don't like your use of the word "unnecessary." What is necessary? Certainly everyone has killed a fly before, to rid your ears of its annoying buzzing. Is it really necessary to kill that fly? No. It's nothing to kill that fly- no bad feelings in your conscious whatsoever. Yet you call me demented for killing a squirrel that was also making annoying noises. How are the fly and the squirrel different? Because the squirrel is a mammal and bigger in size? Because a fly is hideous and a squirrel can be perceived as cute? I see no difference. Same for an annoying cat or dog that makes noises that disturb my sleep. It's alright to kill a fly but tradition says it's wrong to kill a cat or dog, but again fine to kill a cow or deer. What a fucked up world we live in.
>>You're stuck on common decency Do you not associate decency with good? >>Is it really necessary to kill that fly? Now you're the one changing my words. I used the word "sentient". A fly is not self-aware. Cats, Dogs and Squirrels don't have anything resembling souls. A yukkuri can communicate on a level with humans. Therefore, it is intellectually superior to all nonhuman races and are occasionally smarter than certain humans. Would you kill another human being, Sun?
Why do some people bump old stuff? Why has clammbon stopped drawing? Why is this ending in yet another wall-of-text discussion? When did talking heads made out of pastry become sentient creature? Why am I still awake at 5.15?
>>Why is this ending in yet another wall-of-text discussion? They're fun! You can join in anytime! All that's required is an unshakable opinion and an uncanny ability to ignore the reasoning of others! You can choose from a variety of posting styles: This: Bend words! Reconstruct phrases! Take everything out of context! Act like the One Sane Man by telling your disgruntled boardmates they're nuts! yarnoul: sparse punctuation broken shift key single sentences final destination SUN: Smash people with your blunt opinion! Talk down to those who disagree! Eat kittens! This zany conservative can get away with murder! truckingman: "WHAT IN THE M*THERF*CKING BLUE F*CK!!!?!?!??! sin, Rob" Nameless Troll: Call everything annoying! Annoy fellow users! Sentences incorrectly type! poweryoga: Contribute relevant discourse! Listen to reason! Give translations! SPAZ OUT at other users! Easymodo: Belittle everyone! Respect no one! Get butthurt calling people butthurt! SELF RIGHTOUS TO THE MAX!
I don't associate decency with good. Decency is an opinionated action that sometimes occur in "good". Lets take a very simple example: you find a half-dead bird. Do you put it out of its misery or try to nurse it back to health? Do you ignore it? I can imagine any of them to be put into a label of "decency", depending on a situation. Human nature, when not governed by laws or society will degenerate into more primitive needs and actions. Africa is the best example. Why all the violence and pirating? Why kill a village of women and children? Human nature at its finest, when ungoverned by laws. North korea citizens kill any animal they can get their hands on, bird cat dog you name it. Why? They need food. Over there its perfectly fine to kill a cat.
What comes naturally to humans is to kill other things to survive, society has simply made it easier to do that latter. Sympathy is unfortunately not human nature, but rather just part of your upbringing.
As for yukkuris being able to communicate on a level with humans, that depends on the work. Remember how early on we saw how stupid most yukkuris are, and how they don't know humans grow vegetables instead of it "popping up out of the ground"? Or why is mister killing them when they did "nothing wrong"? A lot of the works now show them with higher levels of intelligence but most are still arrogant ignorant shits that need to be reminded that they're just the role of the victim in a fanfic. Remember what I said in the other post? Once yukkuris become too intelligent, the work degenerates into a typical novel. The major traits of a yukkuri is dumb, simple, and for some... lovable. They are wild animals and should be treated as such. (sic)
>>Now you're the one changing my words. I used the word "sentient". A fly is not self-aware. Cats, Dogs and Squirrels don't have anything resembling souls. A yukkuri can communicate on a level with humans. Therefore, it is intellectually superior to all nonhuman races and are occasionally smarter than certain humans. Would you kill another human being, Sun?
No they fucking can't. All it can do is talk about taking it easy, and even so their concept of easy is very simple-minded. Shiiit, "on a level with humans" he says. What a great insult to humanity.
>>Now you're the one changing my words.
No, your words were: >>When someone performs an act of unneccessary violence at all, with or without vigor, that person is put into an institution and kept away from civilized beings until they learn right and wrong.
"unneccessary violence AT ALL." AT ALL means exactly that, unless you follow it up with your sentience argument, which you did not.
And don't forget pars implications. Although apathetic as usual, you did imply that there was something wrong with what I did to squirrels.
>>Do you not associate decency with good?
No, decency is a standard- it's average. "He's a decent guy." implies he's just an average person with no excess of bad or good.
>>SUN: Smash people with your blunt opinion! Talk down to those who disagree! Eat kittens! This zany conservative can get away with murder!
How dare you fucking call me a conservative!? I'm the bleeding heart liberal here. I'm the one who helps strangers. I'm the one that doesn't want to see people starve, not "eat the poor." If anything, I'm moderate. Hot damn.
Now you're the one changing my words. I used the word "sentient". A fly is not self-aware. Cats, Dogs and Squirrels don't have anything resembling souls. A yukkuri can communicate on a level with humans. Therefore, it is intellectually superior to all nonhuman races and are occasionally smarter than certain humans. Would you kill another human being, Sun?
What does a soul have to do with anything? What about a parrot, it can communicate with humans too, or a monkey with a keyboard. Would killing them be the same as killing a human?
The concept of yukkuri having or not having souls notwithstanding, torturing creatures that feel pain is still psychotic behavior. If you smash a parrot with a hammer, or skin the monkey alive, you're fucked up, regardless of whether or not they were sentient or had "souls."
Killing Animals isn't inherently amoral, but then neither is killing people. (self defense, defense of others, sanctioned warfare, executions,etc) if it's done for some useful or defensible reason. The problem comes in when the sole reason is sadistic pleasure as that crosses a line into being extremely abnormal and frankly impossible to rationally justify.
Now we can still find such abuse amusing, much like we can find a slasher movie funny at times, but we also wouldn't try and paint the killer in such a film as anything besides a crazed monster. Some people WILL however try to paint axe crazy anon that revel in sadistic abuse of sapient creatures that feel pain and fear death as something other then psychosis.
that's were the issue is I think if you like the abuse okay fine, but don't try and justify it or say it's perpetrators aren't scum because they clearly are.
Both could work. There's a lack of morality in the attitude of certain yukkuri works, giving no reason other than for the hell of abusing yukkuris. Thinking in terms of conventional morality, the actions are also pretty immoral. But as we know, morality as we all know and usually apply doesn't really exist with yukkuris. We've seen that time and time again.
Whatever you think, we still enjoy the abuse all the same. No justification is really necessary for enjoyment.
Guys, you are taking this too seriously, those are just pictures,you are not going to hell for looking at them and liking them,its same as killing people in game, i enjoy them but IRL I can barely kill a fly.
While the intelligence of yukkuri's range from artist to artist, they are ussually comparible to that of a toddler to a child. So it is safe to say it has humanlike or near human intelligence (unless offcourse you don't consider toddlers or children to be human?)
"The problem comes in when the sole reason is sadistic pleasure as that crosses a line into being extremely abnormal and frankly impossible to rationally justify. "
But people do many things simply because they feel good, and no further rational justifications necessary. Sadism is one of those things.
I mean, how do you rationally justify non-procreational sex? How do you rationally justify the wind blowing on your face? How do you rationally justify eating ice cream? You can't.