I wownder how hard a yukkuri simulator would be to program.
I mean, behaviour, reproduction, reaction to certain actions, some level of physics, dynamic models (such as the ability to create submodels that depend on how the yukkuri was sliced), and some other stuff.
It could be an interesting tech demo for games based on psycological thrillers.
Also, I am very surprised at noone has made any diclonious yukkuri yet.
I've been playing around with a yukkuri simulator idea for the past few months but never had the time to get around to it.
In short, the complexity depends on whether you want sophistication. The biggest problem is with crowd/child interaction; it makes the AI much deeper and harder to handle. If you are employing a simple search tree for action it makes the tree much deeper and the span wider.
The rest is not too hard. I've already played around with dynamic models and some sort of physics model and reaction to actions, and they're all very simple to program.
While it would be complicated on levels, we're given a minor reprieve since yukkuri are basically dumb. We could take advantage of the limitations of AI to replicate realistic yukkuri interaction and reactions.
I have a basic design for yukkuri memory that is both expansive and limiting in just a way that defines how a yukkuri exists. It uses a limited number of weighted memories and age-specific meta-knowledge. A yukkuri builds a list of perceptions about its surroundings based on what it already knows and then compares that against its current weighted memories and personal needs to build a reaction. It then makes a simple decision that causes the yukkuri to do simple tasks with items; the items fill in some of the context for how the task is done, with chances of mistake or failure to understand possible, of course. After the actions is chosen, the weights are adjusted and any new memories are added. (There are separate sorts for a yukkuri's memory, including general information about people the yukkuri knows/remembers, what has happened to the yukkuri personally, what has happened to others around the yukkuri.) My concern is that despite how good the tests suggest this system to work, they also suggest that a group of yukkuri would cause a lot of load on a system. I'm messing with heaps in expectation of having to address this problem (I'm using simple strings to codify things at the moment). I even conceptually worked-out how this memory system could naturally spawn relatively-original MENTALLY-BROKEN yukkuri.
I have a somewhat sturdy framework for a quantifiable yukkuri lifecycle, and a rather flimsy framework for a "yukkuri tech tree." Essentially, those little curious nicknacks that yukkuri possess and seem to have built for themselves, such as houses, individual walls, shallow subterranean nests, etc..
My bigger concern about the whole project is that I still haven't decided what kind of yukkuri game I should hope to devise. A straightforward yet still complex torture simulator like some perverse tamagotchi? a yukkuri village simulator like The Sims or Dwarf Fortress? a full-blown yukkuri sandbox game set in a much scaled-down Gensokyo? a combination of the above? This is an important question because it would define who we the player would be and how we would interact with the yukkuri - would be a human (owner) suggesting things to yukkuri, would we swap between different yukkuri to control and given out selfish orders to other yukkuri (SimAnt inspiration)? would we be one yukkuri and we really have almost no direct control over other yukkuri actors? My notes are preparing for any of these possibilities.
My only big success is figuring out how I would codify an area of the game's environment thus that I could build a massive and materially complicated area with little memory. If in 3D. My biggest problem is that the fanon keeps changing and distorting things about the yukkuri while I'm working.
That's the problem I was looking at. It is very easy to build the responses via decision trees, lists or heaps but the computation required for every interaction, especially when you start to have more yukkuris, will be extremely intensive. Even faster algorithms like A* running with 5 yukkuris in the background will be very computationally intensive. My platform is flash so you can imagine why I stopped there.
I've also thought about what type of yukkuri games, and I've came up with a few things:
-The protagonist should be the anon. -A sandbox game is cool in concept, but maybe a bit out of scope. -A tamagotchi/princess maker type of deal is the most feasible: though that limits you to 1 yukkuri. -3/4 top down god's eye view of a yukkuri nest/area is feasible and doable. This would be almost like a "sim yukkuri" type of deal, where the yukkuris go about their business and you can add/delete stuff to the environment but no direct interaction with the yukkuri. -A variation on the above is to have limited control over the yukkuris, like you said, via sim-ant inspiration.
I think you shouldn't have to worry about the fanon too much. Just go with the general idea you have and don't worry about random bursts of weird things like yurikus, flying peni coptors and you'll be golden.
If you want to toss your idea up on http://groups.google.com/group/yufanfics, we can discuss it in detail without having to sort through the comments every day. :P
I still think Creatures would be good inspiration. You don't control them, but they are aware of your presence and you can heavily influence their lives (or deaths).
I'll make some screenshots but here's what I think:
You have a variety of places you can visit, from your house to the forest to the city to the factory and places in between, like between your home and the forest, etc. In each of those places you can manipulate objects and yukkuris. We don't need to overwhelm ourselves with full-scale physics right away- instead we should build it up bit by bit and release new betas as new features are implemented. Physics would probably be one of the last features implemented.
Anyways, in each screen you can take things from the environment and put things in the environment. For example, you can take food from your house and use it as bait to lure yukkuris from hiding in a bush or under a vending machine. Yukkuris don't just bounce around in the open( usually) so you have to use your head to figure out how to find them and capture them. This game should have a degree of intelligence required to be fun and engaging and not just mindless torture. Sometimes when you get to a screen you find special occasions, like a flood or a dancing yukkuri trying to get money in the city; these are like random events that can happen.
Anyways, I have a lot more to write but I gotta' drop someone off so I'll be back.
Anyways, I feel that the game should have goals and achievements rather than just being a simulator. This will keep the being fun and challenging; also, not all tools and items will be available at the start- you start out with basic things like a knife and fly swatter but more complex things must be purchased, found, or built. To make money, you can either bring special yukkuris to people who are interested, like Touhou characters or the Factory, OR the game will have a special feature where you can record what you do to the yukkuris and the upload your video to YuTube and depending on how good your videos are you will receive money from sponsors and donations. I don't know how hard it would be to record frames but it would be a nice feature.
The factory gives you money for accomplishing certain tasks and finding rare yukkuris. You can still sell them less rare yukkuris too. Other organizations can also pay you for your services; for example, if a household has a yukkuri infestation you must investigate to figure out how they got in and capture or eliminate all of them.
Yukkuris will also try to break into your house, so you've got to set up defenses. You can use everything from tacks to dogs and the more you improvise, the more fun you will have.
Your main base of operations is your house, where you have a glass tank that stores yukkuris. You throw all your yukkuris in there but you can buy bigger tanks and more tanks if you wish to have individual experiments and separate yukkuris.
Really pandering to the violence there. Not that it's a bad thing per se, but it's heavily dependant on the focus within the game.
Assuming a 'creatures' or 'sims' style focus then frankly the player should have little actual ability to kill or harm yukkuri directly as the focus would not be about what anon can do to yukkuri, but about what yukkuri do themselves. That's not to say that BAD END deaths won't happen, but they'd have to be things indirectly caused by anon (ie: anon places a fireplace! Yukkuri end up setting themselves on fire.) or, far more likely, caused by yukkuri (yukkuri falls off cliff during fight with sibling! and suchlike) stupidity.
As a 'business' style game, more along the lines of... well, okay, i don't know any good comparisons offhand - then anon interaction would be more involved and such a model would facilitate the idea of raising certain types of yukkuri for selling. Perhaps a customer orders a super-sweet Marisa - okay then, time to get out the implements of torture. Then again, maybe one orders a well behaved, polite yukkuri - obviously rampant torture isn't going to work there. I would expect there to be time limits on the orders too.
Really though, you're never going to fit in everything everyone wants, so just go with what you think works and sod the rest.
You make a good point there but my idea will allow both. It's just that rather than observing yukkuris in their chaotic natural habitat you put them in a tank. There you can pour sand or dirt into the tank to give them a place to make their nest and watch their behavior.You can drop new yukkuris into the tank and see what happens. You can add new factors into their habitat like snakes or thumbtacks- you can do all these things without directly harming them. But all yukkuri behavior eventually turns violent and hostile- honestly, who wants to play a yukkuri game where they do only rub-rub and eat all day?
The tank is the first beta. After that is implemented, then all the other ideas will gradually be added.
"There you can pour sand or dirt into the tank to give them a place to make their nest ..." All i can think of now is giving them different 'ground' materials to see how quickly they end up burying themselves trying to make a nest.
Oh yes, yukkuri error should be a very fun part of this game. However you do the A.I., you should make them very error-prone and have its perceptions be ignorant. For example, if a yukkuri sees another yukkuri get devoured by an animal, it will assume not that the animal is dangerous, but that it can't take it easy. When it sees the animal lay down or move slowly it will think the animal is taking it easy and not consider it a threat anymore.
I also think this game should be 2D as yukkuris just don't look right in 3D. I'll be trying to make a detailed, 3D yukkuri and see if I can make it look just as annoying as a 2D one.
Then you're exactly the kind of person who would be interested in my new game- Halo: Civil Edition. Engage the Covenant in a variety of exciting conversations about T.V. shows, politics, and the meaning of life!
Don't get me wrong. I realize that there are plenty of bad yukkuris (like, say rapist Alices), and would love the opportinuty to give them what they deserve. I'd just like acknowledgement of the fact that there are good yukkuris too.
I do think it should appeal to the three crowds of punishment, love, and love + punishment.
Also throw in a random factor like some are born well behaved, others require punishment to be good and others just can't learn to be good until you really torture them. Then they forget the minute the eat something sweet and you'll need to torture them again.
Some things to consider, all yukkuris have needs bar like in sims, energy, easiness, hunger, toilet, lust(alice).
That talk of a yukkuri game sounds delightful. Something that appeals to the three crowds as said before makes sense. I'd definitely wait for something like this.
Only thing is,the yukkuri must be cute. Yuudoru/Clammbon/Yukkurarium artist style cute. Then they could get uglier the more you punish them or somesuch.
Most of my time is spent trying to find a paying job. I am fleshing-out lots of concepts, but not at what any fandom would call an optimal pace. Also, I put aside "world building" for the time being to move onto "engine building." Considering I've never made a game before, this is quite fun, though it has involved a bit of fighting with code.
I apologize to poweryoga for not uploading a compilation of written ideas to the given group.
>yakultrain I've not even thought out that angle quite yet. Perhaps we conjoin the game - a simulator with the avatar of a Mister and a simulator with the avatar of a yukkuri. All I can say is what I have is aiming for a Gensokyo setting.
I've given up on flash and switched over to directx and C#, its a much more familiar territory for me. That being said I've been working on it for most of august. I have most of the environment and menu setup but I don't have a 3d polygonal mesh for any sort of yukkuris so I have some random 3d mario mesh as a place holder. If anybody wants to toss a simple yukkuri mesh my way I'd be able to post up a sample on yu-fanfics group.
I'm just saying... don't force people to do abuse, but don't force people to be nice either. The fun of a simulator game is testing what you can do and how you do it. I had this thought with the 'mister' side in mind.
For Yukkuri side, I'd say the same rules applies, but in different ways. Be a Deibu, or be a Gentle Mother, just don't force us into either role
just wanted to put my two cents in, as I find myself enjoying both sides of yukkkuri fandom
>poweryoga So, you have little Mario heads jumping around at the moment? That sounds freaky and cool at the same time.
I'm still working with Java (SDK 1.6.0_10, JRE 6) using Java3D (1.5.2) to back-end the environment. Worse comes to worse, I design all basic 3D structures including free form ones by hand-worked code, one vertex at a time. AI scripting would probably be contemplated from the perspective of a more versatile language.
Well, I've set the code to read in from any generic mesh texture as long as its compatible, so it's actually just a bunch of small marios jumping around instead of a head. I haven't put in any sort of AI yet, just focusing on getting the general functions working right now. I think Java is a perfectly acceptable language for AI though, for the most part you will not have too many levels of a decision tree to go through.
^ Now that you mention it... I completely forgot the yukkuri postal models. I'll toss the model in and see how it works.... I reformatted my computer to windows 7 and I have to reinstall a lot of things. Thanks for the reminder though! :D
some update.... I think I might start making a new thread for this later since this one got so big.
I rebuilt the game with the .x from yukkuri postal and they sort of work. The models are oriented in a different axis than the one I specified, so they're... bouncing on their sides. Other than small error I will probably start using these models unless I can find better ones.
This is still in the drawing boards with a lot of basic code, but I'm not sure how many triangles are in the yukkuri postal file or exactly how a .x file is setup. If this ever takes off then I'll ask for a bit more, but for now a placeholder yukkuri from yukkuri postal is fine. Thanks for the offer though!
I'm very interested in the sound of this project. Wish you guys the best. One thing though, how would you organise such a project? Would you use the Yukkuri fics group, or maybe the wiki here?
To be honest, it's not organized. I was planning on using the yukkuri fanfics group to post up my work but lots of things keep on getting in the way. (like Uncharted 2, borderlands, batman... :D)
What I can do is post up my code, but to be honest I haven't worked on it for the past month or 2 because of all the games. :p