Well there was a hint that maybe the mugger here may had sparred them if he could get the money, all the beating started when they hit them (of course because of the hat), then the mother gave him the money and it seemed that the guy was going "that's more likely!"
Of course it's all supposition, any chance was ruined here.
You can't seriously be faulting the yukkuri for defending themselves. The guy was walking away with Marisa's hat. That's a death sentence in the yukkuri world.
Also, anon attacked first. he kicked the crap out of mother.
Matt you are mistaking my words, what i said was that the anon may had sparred them if he could get a way with the money, specially the 2nd time, then Marisa bite him and well, the guy went on wiht his carnage.
This, isn't about the yukkuris deserving it or anything, but loosing a chance of surviving out of a bad move. Remember that the Anon and the Mother seemed to achieve some agreement before the "OH SHIT" moment, even the Mother went OH SHIT when she saw her little one biting the anon and pretty much ruining her effort of bargaining their lives.
There is a difference of "who is at fault?" and "Man you just screwed it", Anon is at fault for being a thief and abuser, BUT, the Marisa screwed it for her and her mother, when there were signs of the mothers actually achieving some sort of agreement. Maybe if Marisa stayed put, she and her mother may had survived, but since she didn't, the anon keep on in his rampage, fault aside, that's a bad move. It's like when the hero does something reckless and someone gets killed out of it, yeah the bad guy killed the person, etc. but the hero screwed up badly there and maybe if the hero wasn't reckless and found another way or accepted momentarily the bargain, things may had gone different.
Well. I want to argue with you. Try and prove my point...But I can't. It would likely be taken as anti-abuse.
*sigh* This is one of those situations were those idiots('Wah, abuse is sad/I can't stand happiness!, yknow?) make it difficult for members that actually think before posting.
The thing is, you want to argue for no reason, again, this isn't about them deserving it or them being at fault, but well screwing up at a critical moment that may had saved their lives.
It was discussed on the original, the Anon is a douchebag, but the yukkuris wasted a chance of being sparred, so obvious that even the mother yukkuri realized it, you can see it in her face when she goes "OH SHIT!"
Nobody here is saying they deserved this, so no need to argue, the villain will remain villain, but there can be a "what the hell hero?" moment if the hero really screws it badly.
I wasn't an asshole, you are the one jumping about us blaming them for the whole situation when if anything i commented on how there may had been some chances in the scenario if the little fella hadn't ruined it, plain and simple.
Don't act so defensive, we are talking about this scenario, the author clearly meant for the yukkuris to be wiped out, but, what was the final catalyst he used for the final part to takep lace? The Koyukkuri biting when the anon seemed to reach an agreement with the mother who clearly understand this guy was a theft and cared more for the money than beaten them up, unless if provoked further.
One thing if fighting against hopeless odds in a defined scenario, another is fighting like a retard and get everybody killed when they may had lived if you were patient or let the flow move on.
The koyukkuri screwed up badly, and it the end it lead to the remaining of the beat up and it's own death, the anon may had spared them as it was hinted by the face he did when the mother showed him the money, and the koyukkuri clearly fucked up based on it's mother's reaction to his action and the outcome.
Scenario wise, the koyukkuri deserves a "what the hell hero?" for pretty much ruining the last chance they had of this not becoming a complete slaughter, story wise, this, being the intention of the author, just because the author clearly means to kill'em all, that doesn't mean we should only judge the killers, when some of the victims aids in a way or others the killers or plainly make things worse and maybe if they had remained put, they may had saved more lives than trying to be a retarded hero.
Again this wasn't fighting against hopeless odds, it was plainly screwing up what was it's mother's efforts to bargain their lives which seemed to be effective until the screw up.
It's like the case of this Reimu, yeah she and her partners were going to be killed anyway, but she just made things worse and pretty much helped the abuser to kill them, all for her escape, which only ended in a pathetic and epic fail.
Of course, in this scenario there isn't a JUSTICE feeling because there is no justice here, the little fella wasn't doing anything wrong, BUT, that doesn't mean it didn't ruint it for the remaining of its family, even more when the Mother seemed to achieve an agreement to save their lives.
If we used your logic Matt, we would had to "Forgive" all the shithead or trashy attitudes victims may develop in the middle of abuse because it the authors always do that and sooner or later the anon would had killed them because that's how the author's work like.
And that isn't how it works, denying the mistakes, faults, screw ups, etc. just because they are the victims isn't acceptable, specially when they lead to make thigns worse or actually be the triggers of the horrible outcomes.
My point was simple, regardless of the intention, the chances of surviving were reduced by 0 with that single act, specially when there was a notorious hint of some "agreement", or you didn't realize that when the guy grinned the mother also smiled for a moment, just before the "oh shit" face and the anon glancing somwhere else?
Reasons aside, the result is what is being discussed here, and the probablity of being able to survive, IN the scenario, based on what we were shown, this anon may had sparred them if they hadn't attacked, it was notorious from how he only stepped the mother not in a highly violent way, just enough to restrain her while he got the hat, maybe he would he was even going to walk away, yet, his mistake, which lead to the yukkuris attacking, was to take the hat too, instead of grab the money and drop the hat. Then the beating happens, at some point the mothers realizes what the guy wanted and hands it over, and it seemed both reached and agreement, yet, the Komarisa goes and bites the anon, pretty much ruining their low survival chances.
There is no criticismn of reasons or anything, they do have the right to defend themselves, yet, here we are pretty much discussing their course of action, how it developed and what it ended as.
Good intentiosn or rightful intentions aside, if the intention just make things worse and don't bring a good outcome either in short term or long term, it's pretty much a screw up, even more if there was a probability of solving the situation through another method, in this case, Mother giving anon what he wanted and bargaining their lives.
That Komarisa, by biting anon, just made things worse when there were chances she could had survived thanks to her mother's bargain.
We are not discussing the validity of reasons, the moral implications, anything, just the cause and effect of the actions, and how they lead to this scenario in part, it's obvious that the criminal is the anon, but we can't ignore the faults or the mistakes of the victims if they just made things worse, specially when there was no need to, regardless of their reasons.
That's all i was saying, you went, and exagerated the whole thing, and even started insulting, just because, i said you didn't have any reason to argue, which was the truth, you were mistaken what i was saying and missing completely the point of my post which was mentioning the possiblity of this family survival, or at least the few remaining members's survival, if that single silly action wasn't taken. Nothing more, there is no saying that the anon wasn't criminal, that the anon wasn't bad or that the yukkuris here deserved it, you completely changed the meaning of what i said or simply missed the point of a simple discussion of possiblities and criticismn of the course of action taken after seeing what it lead to.
Anyway, that's pretty much it, i hope i made myself clear here, but i'll also ask for the same comment clean up and apologize for the silly argument, but seriously, i'm not gonna take blame for Matt missing the point of my comment and making a case out of it.
Of course, i would like, if the comments are erased, to have my first comment still there, since it doesn't anything wrong on it.
Yeah i know, but honestly, he missed the point of my comment and still went on with it, it really bothered me, i rather explain than leave a misunderstanding keep going.
Justice, there's something you need to learn before you compose those big blocks of text: nobody reads them, especially not the person you're directing them towards. What makes me feel so good about riling up Sun is that even when I only respond to one sentence on the ass end of his rebuttle, he'll still keep typing shit while telling himself someone'll read it. Now, do you want to be like that empty husk of a man or do you want to keep shit all civil like by not lettin' Matt's drunken ramblins get to ye in the future?
I actually read them too. They're interesting, as opposed to a brainless one or two liners that resorts to throwing in insults which are pretty pathetic. JIE's essays are quite enjoyable to read, and it's better to clear up misunderstandings than for the other person to hold some grudge or view over it.
JusticeItEasy said: Matt you are mistaking my words, what i said was that the anon may had sparred them if he could get a way with the money, specially the 2nd time, then Marisa bite him and well, the guy went on wiht his carnage.
This, isn't about the yukkuris deserving it or anything, but loosing a chance of surviving out of a bad move. Remember that the Anon and the Mother seemed to achieve some agreement before the "OH SHIT" moment, even the Mother went OH SHIT when she saw her little one biting the anon and pretty much ruining her effort of bargaining their lives.
There is a difference of "who is at fault?" and "Man you just screwed it", Anon is at fault for being a thief and abuser, BUT, the Marisa screwed it for her and her mother, when there were signs of the mothers actually achieving some sort of agreement. Maybe if Marisa stayed put, she and her mother may had survived, but since she didn't, the anon keep on in his rampage, fault aside, that's a bad move. It's like when the hero does something reckless and someone gets killed out of it, yeah the bad guy killed the person, etc. but the hero screwed up badly there and maybe if the hero wasn't reckless and found another way or accepted momentarily the bargain, things may had gone different.
kind of like when cloud went serching for arise if he never followed her, she would have never ben distracted, and would probably have seen sepy comeing