Dunno how he got told, it's more like things aren't going as planned, yet ironicaly, not because the ko's are proactively ruining his plans, just not acting the way he expected them to.
Like failing a Kansas City Shuffle because the guy looked at the right instead of the left like the shuffle demmands to be succesful.
It seems that in this comic no one can take it easy.
@Three: could you please stop posting? I believe it's the third time in a couple of months that I open OYP while drinking my tea and you make me spit something because of the giggles. You own me a new table, just for you know.
Okay just noticed that Komarisa also got her braid's end done with a bushy style, i originally thought she wastalking only about Koreimu, but it's funny that even Komarisa wanted to get bushy bushy hair.
You are breaking the rules Prami, Poweryoga can i ask for a comment erasing? and Maybe a more blatlant warning since Prami seems to not listen to anybody.
Quite a few people. You're not really approving of the comic seeing as you're attacking the anon and the abuse (let's keep in mind the other comments you've made as well), and you've previously used the logic of yukkuris = people = animals, you wouldn't tear off a cat's legs, it's all wrong etc. which is pretty typical and generally only used by one group. People try to skirt round the rules by saying they don't want to break the rules and cause trouble... and go on to break the rules. Not really convincing. No attacks on anons, their abuse actions, and please don't bring up the morality argument again that you wouldn't rip off a baby's legs if it pissed or something, etc.
Basically you done goofed. Once Tea takes a disliking to you, might as well leave OYP before he starts telling us war stories about the Good/Bad Old Days.
Well from what i understood you called the anon gay and fail.
Considering how people misuse gay as a insult, you are probably insulting anon and calling him gay, which not only is anti abuse and against the rules but offensive against homosexuals.
If that wasn't your intention sorry but that's how it sounds like and considering you already called for how awesome would be if yukkuris harmed anon, or insulted anons, etc. you don't help to your cause.
And as i said, you don't liste to anybody, you drop your comment, go on commenting like 50 times per minute, yeah i'm exagerating, but it's like you do 100 comments per hour or something, you bump old stuff, comment on long ago ended discussions like if they were new ones, etc.
So please Prami, stop the facade, stick to the rules, if you really don't like abuse, which right now is obvious, then avoid it, just avoid it.
The problem is that things are way to sensitive. I don't like abuse and I see no use in repeating why I'm against it BUT I don't see how in these stories I'm supposed to side with the anon, since its clear hes meant to be a stand-in for the audience since he doesn't come over as sympathetic and the koyukkuri, to me, come across as more interesting.
As it is, the problem I have with this story is that I don't buy the "Abuse of yukkuris=better people" or the "the universe hates yukkuri" arguments, especially since I like the koyukkuri. :V
I'm pretty sure he meant "seeing this guy fail at torture" rather than gay.
You aren't meant to side with the anon if you don't like abuse, that's your problem, this isn't for you, yet you somehow expect all yukkuri works to carter ALL the yukkuri fans, but that's denying or being blind to how the fandom is really like, some works are for some people, some are for others and that's it.
Also considering you like to ignore a great deal of the fanon aspects and claiming "they don't happen" just for your if out of place interpretations, when it's basically what the majority of the artists work with, you'll never awknowledge how man times law of physics and such bend just to screw them and such.
Besides you are mistaken screwing with yukkuris in general to JUSTICE, and it's why you had always had problems here.
You fail to realize there is a middle ground by the anons, clearly this story not being the case, but you seem to think that people over do it too much even with shiteheads or scums, since you don't grasp the fact that yukkuris absolutistic and simplistic nature, leads them to become "ruined for good".
It's time anelaid to accept the reality of the fandom, instead of trying to deny it or look for a justification, since you don't like abuse, there are works you won't like, same way that a middle Guy like me will dislike many works but won't say much about them.
So, IGNORE abuse, i did in many works i didn't like, and it works like charm, it's time for you to try it because you always end up bringing up this topic again while avoiding the facts of the fandom and fanon.
I'm not saying that this applies to all stories, I just don't see the purpose
I'm okay with justice if it involved killing the yukkuris but to me some stories take the idea of JUSTICE and take it one step beyond that into the lines of abuse, which is fine but not JUSTICE.
The very foundation of yukkuri is that there aren't any set rules for them, even if some are followed, my interpretations are no less valid than yours following one of the core beliefs of yukkuri.
Manga physics are okay for me if the story somewhat allows for them to exist, for me, it just seemed out of place considering everything else that happened. :V
Also Kiraata may love his abuse but hes put a fair amount of thought into them, so the idea that this anon may not be a role-model is possible but it seems to contradict its own stances in other places.
They may be whatever you want, like many say, but there are a notorious fanon growing, that limits the notion a bit.
For example you can't deny the existence of shitheads and scums and their blatlant "impossible to heel face turn" nature regardless of species, age, etc. , the same way that abusers can't deny that there is no good yukkuri unless the story blatlantly mentions them going extinct somehow, but that "from day 1 they were shitheads" that's out of place.
And what do you mean byt "taking it one step beyond to abuse" ? I know of stories on which anon are deluded to think that ALL yukkuris are bad and should be killed, not caring to properly discriminate the good from the bad, but i still think that stories on which horrible Deibus, Bawizas, etc. Get gruesome deaths and even long Sessions of Abuse still JUSTICE worthy.
I disagree that gruesome deaths and long sessions of abuse are justice worthy because it goes into abuse using justice as a background.
The problem with shitheads and scum is that its popular justification for abuse that's being used outside of abuse and its become somewhat of a destructive view since I've seen it happen, a bit too often, people saying that all yukkuri are scum until proven otherwise even in stories that have no connection with that subculture. This of course doesn't prohibit them from using that claim since as we've both said, its up the artist and the audience. There is no way to really justify, it to me, outside of JUSTICE and ABUSE, and to be honest, its a useful stipend to use because it cuts off any discussion regarding rehabilitation or mercy since the JUSTICE or ABUSE fan can bring up that they can't be changed. I can deny it because its up the reader to decide if they buy an argument (even the paste core is a controversial element and I can say the artist, if I disagree with it, is full of shit and cancel his story out of my personal canon).
The "notorious fanon" is a small but productive element, so I won't consider them to be canon since that goes against the founding nature of yukkuri which has the artist be the source of their nature.
The problem I have with shitheads is that they are made of bean-paste and some canon states that its recycled/they have short memories, I don't see how they can be permanently good or bad if they are subject to change to quickly.
Oh yeah, and as for FF, it doesn't have its own story. It really has nothing to criticize aside from the art since there really isn't any sort of bound between the different styles of art. It does outnumber abuse considerably, but almost none of it is related to the standards of yukkuri largely built up by the abuse section.
JUSTICE seems to be a sub-genre and can best be defined as "abuse justified by the shittiness of the yukkuri" but there is some over-lap in it.
Rehabilitation works for non scum yukkuris, what some people call neutrals or scum with potential.
Usually you can tell which one is which based on how rabidly scum they are, being the most rabid the Shitheads. a Scum with potential may be willing to listen after proving your strenght, a scum or shithead won't.
Besides anybody using the logic of "all yukkuris are scum" in works that say otherwise are wrong, as i told you, the usual agreement is that as much they are a majority.
And the whole "reclycled" Bean Paste and Short Memories had long ago being ditched, i don't exactly know how it happened, maybe people thought it would be more interesting that instead yukkuris were gullible and that their "mood swings" were more about positive and negative reinforcements than "they forgot how much they suffered after changing paste".
Anyway that's your problem anelaid you blatlantly deny the fanon WE work with, and expect us to stick with yours.
Here we don't work 100% with personal canons, since we know that ends up leading to long and stupid arguments of "this is red, no this is blue" level.
We have our own views and interpretations but we work with that fanon as a general base we can all share and use as stepground for more productive discussion.
If you are going to just deny a great deal of the fanon.
Well, it's better for you to either go to Yukkuri Booru where they started to work on their own fanon, or just don't discuss your own personal canon here, since you are only using your personal canon when we use our canon and the fanon combined.
You'll only trigger long ass wall of text discussions of "this is blue, no i think this is red" like discussions leading to nowhere.
That was actually part of my issue with shitheads were those two factors actually. :V
Except the problem I have with the majority of them being shitheads is that there is no way to account for their ability to survive. I understand that yukkuris were never smart but shitheads, at least from what I've seen, are "incompetent even by yukkuri standards" and I thought, given the logic of other yukkuri habits, such as killing for lack of accessories and being born premature, which I guess is based of weeding out the weak, that the shitheads would be weeded out in the same process.
Okay, you understand that I subscribe to the personal canon theory in some regards, if I do subscribe to that I cannot ask what falls under my personal canon to become widely accepted fanon since I reject the concept of "accepted fanon" as being relevant.
I try to go along with the established fanon in so much as I know about it, for the sake of discussion, but sometimes I like to ask, "well, what if X occurs" and run with that logic for enjoyment.
Except, if as you said, they respond to positive and negative reinforcement, wouldn't shitheads be able to manipulated in the same ways?
Manipulated? Yeah. Probably if you give them sweets-sweets after smacking them, they'll think you are surrendering or something and accept the "shitty slave" gift.
But that won't change them, in fact, it may make them worse, check the selfish mother and single mother stories by Gesuaki, I don't remember which one was, but one of them had the situation that being merciful and even giving the shitheads what they wanted only lead to them thinking they defeated a human and using that lie as a way to get their way with other yukkuris.
Now about shitheads not being viable as majority, it's because you don't seem to pay attention to many of our "%" in numbers or the fact that while Scum can be horrible and morally disgusting yukkuris, they still are quite organized and many times make clans, and many times shitheads hang out with them or with the naive neutrals and niceheads.
Usually our numbers are like this
20% Shithead 30% Scum 30% Neutral (many times changing to either scum or nice depending of their siding and influence) 20% Nicehead
basically we have 50% of bad yukkuris, 30% of yukkuris balancing between good and bad and sometimes changing sides if their balance starts moving to one side, and 20% of 100% good yukkuris.
That is far from a majority, however, like you previously stated.
Except I've seen that indicate that even niceheads have the "kill yukkuris with mutations", wouldn't the attitudes of a shithead/scum be considered a mutation, in a sense?
You also told me awhile ago that clans were not part of yukkuri fanon, was this changed?
being a shithead actually helps them survive, because they are more then willing to rape, kill, and pillage their way through other yukkuris. The reason shitheads aren't usually picked off by the nicer yukkuris is that the 'nice' ones are usually too dumb/too forgiving, and so don't realize a yukkuri is an unrepetent shithead, until its too late.
They also tend to group up with other 'like' minded yukkuris, so they tend to have weight of numbers on their side.
As far as shitheads making it out of childhood, how often have we actually seen a yukkuri parent, especially a shithead one, actually punish/kill a shithead Ko? After all, it seems wild yukkuri parents are stupidly reluctant to even so much as lightly punish their 'precious little ones'.
my statement of majority was for "shithead and scum" aka "bad yukkuris" you somehow reduced it to shitheads, when i did mention a lot "shitheads and scums".
Also i never told you that clans were not part of the yukkuri fanon, i told you that the yukkuris of the "toll station" picture didn't have any hint of being part of a clan or anything, they just were a family and nothing else.
Clans were part of the canon since long but they are basically "yukkuri groups" they aren't the "family clan" thingy, they are like tribes in a way. And the toll yukkuris had nothing to do with them.
>>I don't see how in these stories I'm supposed to side with the anon
Simple: you're not supposed to, as you're not part of the intended audience for this work and it wasn't meant for you. That's pretty clear as you realise the anon is an audience stand-in because you dislike him and can't sympathise him, and you like the koyukkuris more, even though they're the target and their suffering is the main attraction. You clearly recognise there are two ends of the spectrum; this story is meant for the opposite end of yours, so of course you're not going to be able to see any point, or sympathy or enjoyment as it wasn't geared to make you. As for the purpose of such stories, there probably really isn't one outside of making abuse for abusers to enjoy and that the artist creating it really likes it too, like, I guess how FF centric people find happy blobs doing silly cute things and draw it. If what you mean by "purpose" is that some works are intended for certain groups, some of the arguments had here are good examples why (a- the creator belongs to and enjoys that group b- avoid shitstorms). You look too deeply to find something to criticise and/or turn abuse into something deep, dark and edgy. You really do just need to learn to ignore abuse and turn around 360 degrees and walk away if you bump into it, because you always bring up how you can't see the appeal/point/sympathy in a story and try to interpret them in a negative way. Although such things have become more polite, which is quite an improvement.
>>the universe hates yukkuri
It's actually more like sarcasm at the fact the laws of the universe (and luck) will twist themselves inside out to get a yukkuri abused. Part of it is probably inspired by complaints about how unrealistic and pointless something is, but such complaints are pretty pointless when it's happening right there (especially because the subjects are unrealistic themselves).
xD Gotta say. I love how the Anon's plans are being blown away by sheer foolhardy, simpleminded optimism. I'm of the opinion he's growing attached to them.
As for this whole debate, the appeal to me had been the character development more than the torture. I'm neutral over the whole abuse/anti-abuse issue. But I do admit I'm, I'm pro family-friendly and happy endings, and it's refreshing to see a story where the yukurri don't end up being total shithead and getting smooshed one way or another.