So aside of abyuse and all, this is one of those stories on which "It would had been better for the yu's to not move from the old home"? or at least wait until all the lil ones were averagely grown up before moving to a new home. After all they may had a better chance if they weren't dragging around akayukkuris and small koyukkuris.
It really is becoming a constant thing in yukkuri works, that if a Big Yu Families moves away too early, specially, with very young babies, the whole trip ends bad sooner or later.
JusticeItEasy said: So aside of abyuse and all, this is one of those stories on which "It would had been better for the yu's to not move from the old home"? or at least wait until all the lil ones were averagely grown up before moving to a new home. After all they may had a better chance if they weren't dragging around akayukkuris and small koyukkuris.
It really is becoming a constant thing in yukkuri works, that if a Big Yu Families moves away too early, specially, with very young babies, the whole trip ends bad sooner or later.
Winter had just ended, so it was actually the right time. And for once the big sisters were actually helping with the moving
danogoat said: Winter had just ended, so it was actually the right time. And for once the big sisters were actually helping with the moving
Babies are always hindrances in trips, specially long trips, even if you have grown ko's to help, the babies will still give problems. Basically the babies just ruin any chance of running away succesfully (and being yukkuris those are already low enough.)
And just because winter is over, that doesn't mean it's the right time to move away, many families stick to their nest hole for generations, as long as food is around, and since in this story it wasn't implied that they lacked food, they just "happily moved away after winter."
Explosion said: Well, it was their fault on basically all accounts.
Dunno if all accounts, we can't blame them for the source of violence's reasons to pick on them, in this case human kids feeling like killing manjuus, if the source of violence were animals we could at least say "instinct, etc." but with humans either it's the yu's fault for provoking them or it isn't their fault because humans just felt like being dicks on them, and in this story it seems to be more about dicking around than anything else.
Explosion said: but we can blame them for their over breeding/consumption that forced them out of their forest
No we can't. It's the law of nature. Any animal species would overbreed if they'd meet the circumstances. It is not good, but it doesn't depend on them.
Explosion said: It's with that in mind I view the boys' abuse as a serendipitous force of nature to punish the yukkuri's stupidity and short-sightedness that's so common in yukkuri works.
And again nope. This single family did nothing stupid, neither it did anything short-sightened (in animal measures). The only ones to blame for this single accident is kids' parents. They raised them without the point "don't to harm to living things". Yes, yukkuris cause problems because of their over-breeding. But taking care of it is exterminators' work, e.g. you don't tell your kids to be okay with killing stray dogs if they overbred and became agressive? No, all you do is watching the news about local government deciding to euthanize the agressive dogs and such (I know it myself, dogs killed a 10-year-old and bitten another one in my town last winter).
Koakuma, you have to remember that Yukkuris CAN limit themselves in the breeding, many just have 2 or 3 kids and only have more when those had become adults or when they are old enough ko's, and even then, the new batch of babies wuld remain 2 or 3.
When they start spawning more than 4, that's when they are pretty much doing it wrong, and even more breed constantly even if they already have kids to take care of. So they can be blamed for over breeding, since we had seen stories on which yukkuris families aren't this huge and are savvy enough to not pump 10x babies or 4x babies every 3 weeks.
You have to remember that they aren't animal, they are monster fauna, they work different, kinda how they can have both animalistic aspects and advanced specie aspects. So one can blame them for being stupid and short sighted.
While the potential of ecological strife out of the yu's nature is very true and latent. I think saying that they are a threat to the world a bit exagerated, at least in the present situation and considering how things seems to be under control in the bigger picture.
Now if Yu's were left alone to go uncontrolled and screwing around, that would be when they would really become a threat and only in a ecological sense.
Still, I don't think this has to do with this Yu Family, as I said before, no mention of food running out, of them leaving the forest barren or anything, only "They felt like moving away to a new home." It's more a random impulse of changing home than they ruining the enviroment and moving on to the next place to ruin.
JusticeItEasy said: While the potential of ecological strife out of the yu's nature is very true and latent. I think saying that they are a threat to the world a bit exagerated, at least in the present situation and considering how things seems to be under control in the bigger picture.
The general consensus has always been "yukkuri population is out of control, but no one wants to address it because its a very, very hard subject."
Yukkuris have never been under control outside of "and then the world united and drove yukkuris into extinction, HAPPY END!" stories. (You think that having (magically talking) rats run around in the streets is "under control"? <.<)
It's an abuse story about some kids doing rotten things to dumb innocent yukkuris. Not sure what the point of discussing the morality of it is - no, it's not a good thing that children just massacred an entire family of yukkuris for fun.
Koakuma said: Well, we have usual rats running around streets, and it's ok. Does the beanpaste really make any difference?
Really? You have rats running around in the streets where you live? I live in New York City and we spend millions of tax/private dollars (directly or indirectly) to minimizing their population.
djibouti said: It's an abuse story about some kids doing rotten things to dumb innocent yukkuris. Not sure what the point of discussing the morality of it is - no, it's not a good thing that children just massacred an entire family of yukkuris for fun.
Because ignorance is not bliss. If you're going to defend an invasive species, you damned well better know your shit cause its a real-world problem and has resulted in the extinction of several species already.
yukiyuzen said: The general consensus has always been "yukkuri population is out of control, but no one wants to address it because its a very, very hard subject."
Yukkuris have never been under control outside of "and then the world united and drove yukkuris into extinction, HAPPY END!" stories. (You think that having (magically talking) rats run around in the streets is "under control"? <.<)
By "under control" I meant "getting killed a lot and exterminations happening averagely often" yeah, they still are over 9000 million yu's but because WE humans, and a few aspects of nature, kill a great deal of their population or whole clans (where the main problem starts) the Yu Pest Problem is reduced a lot from their potential "world danger" tier.
Basically the worse scenario would be to really leave them alone, like many claim we should, that's when shit will hit the fan. And just in case Yuki, I'm not defending them or anything, I just think that it's a bit exagerated to claim "World Danger" tier for them at the moment, it's only a potential capacity that had been stopped in great deal by the non yu's actions. I do agree they can be highly destructive if left to do whatever they want in their present situation, specially if humans stop getting involved in yu affairs.
yukiyuzen said: Really? You have rats running around in the streets where you live? I live in New York City and we spend millions of tax/private dollars (directly or indirectly) to minimizing their population.
Then Yu's probably won't be a problem in your place, If we combine that fact you mentioned and typical Yu-World logic and treatment, that means New York would make sure to reduce the stray yu population to nearly minimum.
JusticeItEasy said: By "under control" I meant "getting killed a lot and exterminations happening averagely often" yeah, they still are over 9000 million yu's but because WE humans, and a few aspects of nature, kill a great deal of their population or whole clans (where the main problem starts) the Yu Pest Problem is reduced a lot from their potential "world danger" tier.
Basically the worse scenario would be to really leave them alone, like many claim we should, that's when shit will hit the fan. And just in case Yuki, I'm not defending them or anything, I just think that it's a bit exagerated to claim "World Danger" tier for them at the moment, it's only a potential capacity that had been stopped in great deal by the non yu's actions. I do agree they can be highly destructive if left to do whatever they want in their present situation, specially if humans stop getting involved in yu affairs.
Then Yu's probably won't be a problem in your place, If we combine that fact you mentioned and typical Yu-World logic and treatment, that means New York would make sure to reduce the stray yu population to nearly minimum.
Ah, but thats only in stories involving humans and most human-yukkuri stories typically take place in urban environments. That is, the place where humans are most populated. In the wild/forest though, humans are less common and therefore less of a threat. Unless you've found a natural predator for bean paste filled animals, I don't see how mother nature is doing much to "kill a great deal of their population or whole clans" which you admit is "(where the main problem starts)". If yukkuris were primarily an urban species, yeah you're right humans keep their numbers down good enough. But yukkuris are not primarily an urban species, therefore your point is diminished.
I didn't say you were defending them, I was addressing that to Koakuma. If Koakuma is gonna defend yukkuris, he should try defending urban rats. See how far he gets in a community outside of this one.
Except New York City has been dealing with the problem of diminishing returns for years now. For the most part, yeah, rats have been largely wiped out in NYC but its not perfect and the further out/less money there is in an area (lolBronx) the worse it gets. That said, the yukkuri problem would be more or less the same. Why spend (serious) money trying to clean up stray yukkuris in an area if you know the locals don't care/have enough money to keep it clean? Now take that to the extreme and ask, why spend ANY money trying to clean up stray yukkuris in an area where there are no humans living there at all?
yukiyuzen said: Unless you've found a natural predator for bean paste filled animals, I don't see how mother nature is doing much to "kill a great deal of their population or whole clans" which you admit is "(where the main problem starts)".
Bears = Some species are Omnivorous, some carnivorous, and a few are even Herbivores. So some of the species would likely hunt yukkuri.
Raccons = Omnivorous Scavenger/Predator, would likely hunt yukkuri.
Crows = We've even seen these used in images.
And in fact, most mammals are Omnivorous enough that they can resort to foods outside their normal diet in emergencies. I.E. Squirrels(Granivores) can sometimes resort to eating meat if desperate/near-starvation.
So, yeah, Turns out there's plenty of animal life that are both predators and Omnivorous(enough) that nature could theoretically* control the yukkuri population.
(* = 'Theoretically', since yukkuri don't actually exist, so we can't know for sure if the animals would eat them.)
Bears = Some species are Omnivorous, some carnivorous, and a few are even Herbivores. So some of the species would likely hunt yukkuri.
Raccons = Omnivorous Scavenger/Predator, would likely hunt yukkuri.
Crows = We've even seen these used in images.
And in fact, most mammals are Omnivorous enough that they can resort to foods outside their normal diet in emergencies. I.E. Squirrels(Granivores) can sometimes resort to eating meat if desperate/near-starvation.
So, yeah, Turns out there's plenty of animal life that are both predators and Omnivorous(enough) that nature could theoretically* control the yukkuri population.
(* = 'Theoretically', since yukkuri don't actually exist, so we can't know for sure if the animals would eat them.)
Good examples, but doesn't really scale. Ignoring extreme cases (Cirnos in the arctic, Nazrins in the desert, etc), invasive species have the advantage of being able to fit within nearly any niche within nearly any ecosystem. That means that while foxes, bears, raccoons and crows would tear apart yukkuris wholesale in a dense forest like the Appalachian Mountains (you forgot a big one! FOG! All that humidity would be like a "Yukkuri Mold Plague"), it won't mean much when yukkuri start to spread out towards the South (are we gonna leave the job to alligators and crocodiles in the Florida Everglades?) or to the West (do prairie dogs eat bean paste?)
(It may sound like I'm just disagreeing to be a jerk but I'm just going by the track record of most invasive species. The idea that a native species would somehow pick up the slack was used as an excuse to introduce invasive species to Australia and North/South America for centuries with disastrous results.)
yukiyuzen said: Good examples, but doesn't really scale. Ignoring extreme cases (Cirnos in the arctic, Nazrins in the desert, etc), invasive species have the advantage of being able to fit within nearly any niche within nearly any ecosystem. That means that while foxes, bears, raccoons and crows would tear apart yukkuris wholesale in a dense forest like the Appalachian Mountains (you forgot a big one! FOG! All that humidity would be like a "Yukkuri Mold Plague"), it won't mean much when yukkuri start to spread out towards the South (are we gonna leave the job to alligators and crocodiles in the Florida Everglades?) or to the West (do prairie dogs eat bean paste?)
Just because I only listed a few examples of omnivorous animals does not mean that that's the full extent.
Want to see what animals could eat yukkuri in the area's you talked about? Find some Mammal species native to the area, and look up if they're omnivores or not. If they're omnivores, then they can eat yukkuri, and probably would. Even if they aren't omnivores, as mammals, they are (probably) omnivorous 'enough' that they could resort to eating yukkuri if they were desperate.
I didn't clarify in the last post, but desperate also includes 'nest being invaded'. I.E. Part 2 of the squirrel example above, as squirrels apparently will eat the creature they killed, that was attempting to enter their nest. And whats one thing yukkuri Loooooove to do? Home/Nest invasions.
Also, remember that I'm talking about yukkuri specifically, not invasive species in general. While the 'fitting into any niche' thing may work for other Invasive species, it doesn't work out too terribly well for yukkuri. After all, the yukkuri diet(in the wild) is purely plants and insects, and just about ANY non-insect species(and even some insect species) is capable of causing major/potentially fatal damage to a yukkuri, should the yukkuri try to kill and eat it.
Take something small and/or weak, like a mouse, for example. Mice have Teeth and (small)claws. They're also stupidly agile little bastards. Also, yukkuri have weak teeth, and a rather low bite strength. (Consensus seems* to be that a yukkuri can not bite hard enough to break a humans skin, which means they may not even have enough strength to break mouse bones, and possibly not even enough to pierce the skin, both of which are required in order to be able to eat said mouse.) The yukkuri may be able to kill the mouse with a body slam due to their weight(emphasis on MAY), but the mouse will be able to use its teeth and claws to tear open numerous holes in the yukkuris skin, thus giving a decent chance of the yukkuri 'bleeding' to death.
(* = I asked a question to the effect of 'can a yukkuri's bite harm(aka, break the skin of) a human?' on the google group, and the primary response was 'no'/'Teeth hard enough to do that would cause problems with eating yukkuri'/'That's not what I think' and similar responses. So that's what the consensus seems like to me, at least in the western community.)
P.S. I don't think anybody, other then terminally stupid PETY members, would try to introduce yukkuri to a new region. (Unless they're Remillia's/flandre's, and the goal is to cut down the other yukkuri types population.)
P.P.S. I didn't list fog because you asked what natural animals would prey upon yukkuri, and last I checked, Fog is a weather condition, not an animal. XP
tl;dr = I get your point, but remember that I only listed a few examples, there's many more omnivores then what I listed, and also remember we're talking about yukkuri specifically, not invasive species in general.
Doesn't matter. You're still assuming that local wildlife will be able to simply accept the invasive species into their diet AND do so in such a large way that the invasive species would be kept in check.
Kudzu is an invasive species and its a plant. By your logic, herbivores should be able to control its growth/numbers just by eating it. Has that happened? Nope. Kudzu has been a major invasive species in the U.S. for over a century now and its still expanding.
yukiyuzen said: -missing one of the most important points-
Must I repeat myself?
Maximusfive said: I get your point, but remember that I only listed a few examples, there's many more omnivores then what I listed, and also remember we're talking about yukkuri specifically, not invasive species in general.
Many times the universe(aka, the laws of physics, nature, things like that) seems to practically bend over backwards to screw over yukkuri. Thus, it wouldn't surprise me if a sudden population boom of the animals that could eat yukkuris would occur, due to introduction of such an easy to obtain food source. (Granted, that population boom of predators would probably cause its own problems, but that's a different issue.)
After all, prey that is completely unable to fight back*(effectively, anyways) is far easier to hunt then prey that can fight back, and (some) animals do seem to understand that fact. Thus, yukkuri would become an easy(pun partially-intended), ZERO-risk food source. Leading to said animals experiencing a (probably) unprecedented abundance of food, which would lead to more 'happy-happy f**k-f**k time' from said animals since they have plenty of food for themselves and any mate/children they may have/acquire, which causes the population boom mentioned above.
Also, the only reason we never seem to include herbivores as potential hunters of yukkuri is because they don't have a 'hunting' instinct. (most)Yukkuri would actually make a decent, easy-to-obtain food source for most herbivores, if they had a 'hunting' instinct. Due to evolution/adaptation/whatever-you-want-to-call-it, it wouldn't surprise me if some herbivores begin to gain a 'hunting' instinct should yukkuri become highly prevalent in the area. So that adds MORE predators of yukkuri. (but only generations after the introduction, so its more of a long-term possibility.)
(* = I'm not including Dosu's in this, due to their relative rarity, and the fact that they(the scum ones, aka the seeming majority of them) have a nasty tendency(for them XP) of self-destructing their clan by trying to invade human area's.)
Many times the universe(aka, the laws of physics, nature, things like that) seems to practically bend over backwards to screw over yukkuri. Thus, it wouldn't surprise me if a sudden population boom of the animals that could eat yukkuris would occur, due to introduction of such an easy to obtain food source. (Granted, that population boom of predators would probably cause its own problems, but that's a different issue.)
Even if the kids are psychos, it fault of the yu parents
Yukkuri survival it's their own responsibility and they must think their actions before doing it
If they didn't tried to abandon their nest, they would still alive
But big families are hard to maintain and do too much noise Soo it was sooner or later their doom would come
Such life on the yunniverse
Pitiful, pitiful..............
...to be continued.Such a big, easy family...
The move that was supposed to have been so pleasant for the whole family--to think that its final destination was
the inside of a reeking, moldy trash bin...