Perhaps the happy end tag should change. I know it's meant to be with a sinister smile, but that just makes this site seem to be abuse orientated instead of being a place for all yukkuri pictures.
How DOES our happy end tag work anyway? I've seen it used ironically, used specifically for abuse endings, for cutesy happy endings, for justice endings, and for pretty much every kind of ending. Is there actually something that happy_end tags?
May someone explain why only abuse endings deserve the 'Happy End' tag instead of the 'Bad End' tag. Since this is a yukkuri site, shouldn't the tags reflect what happened to the yukkuri? Or, is this site abuse oriented?
Frankly, the reason why I asked is because abuse endings aren't the only ones that have been tagged "Happy end". Humor ones like Kama_sutra series, justice ones, and even heartwarming stories all have representation under "Happy End". Hell, some are tagged happy end just because the author has the text "happy end" in the comic.
A tag should be accurate; not ironic. I can understand how abusers can consider this to be a happy end (despite the Alices living at the end), but in general this is anything but.
As a catch-all yukkuri site, I don't like OYP using "Happy End" in an ironic way that would only make sense from one side's persepctive. I think it should be changed.
Seriously though, I wasn't around when it was first put into use. When I saw it I assumed it was just a joke tag. There's a lot of unnecessary/useless/redundant/wrong tags floating about similar to this though.
Well, my thoughts are that a tag should describe the yukkuri. Bad_End shouldn't/wouldn't be a judgment on the ending, but an ending where yukkuri met a "bad" end. Either death, rape, etc. Happy end would be a "happy ending" for the yukkuri.
The ending to that series annoys me a lot. But it's technically a "happy_end" since the "main" star has a happy end. Whether or not it's deserved or right is irrelevant. Or the end of yukkuri in the city. It's bittersweet, but Reimu "ends" "happily".
This is a happy end because the majority of the characters ended up happy. Not the series' problem that you emphasize with the family more than the rapers. Who are you to say that it should be a bad end because the family died?
Protagonist shmotagonist. It would be one thing if there was heavy exposition and insight into the family, if the audience was with them for an extended amount of time and expected to "bond" with them. There was one image introducing the setting and family and then the action starts.
So, to conclude, changing this to a bad_end would be pandering to the family-friendly crowd and this series is clearly not family-friendly.
You misunderstand: I don't think this is necessarily a bad end either, for the same reasons you've stated. I merely want to abolish the tag here entirely. It's just an ending; there is no greater meaning.
>>May someone explain why only abuse endings deserve the 'Happy End' tag instead of the 'Bad End' tag. Because Japanese artists began using "Happy End" for endings where the yukkuris suffer. We just picked it up and started using it.
And thus, giving this site a bad image. Perhaps Nucklavee has a point. The 'Happy_End' tag should be removed. It's too opinionated for an overall yukkuri site.
Of the things that give OYP a "bad image", as you put it, the Happy_End tag is pretty far down the list. It's been around for the better part of the site's history, and is one of OYP's culture. I see no reason to get rid of it now.
>>irony ... isn't a good reason to have a tag. Given that OYP isn't a site devoted to pictures of stupid talking pastries, and a particularly informal one at that, why the hell not?
The only reason Mezzo is making a fuss over the Happy End tag is to be a smartass and find some way of getting in the way of abuse (there is no specific site for tearing apart yukkuri abuse already, just learn to deal with it). I don't see how abuse endings are "bad ends" either- they should be "good ends", if anything. Yeah, deal with it. It's been like that for a long time, there's no need to get rid of it, and there's also your own family friendly equivalent _here_.
There is no reason to get rid of it. The "happy end" tag is part of the culture here; it's relevant to the works they apply to; and is clearly used by a large amount of the community, and it is not an attack on the content of the stories. NO FUN ALLOWED.
Useing a tag solely for irony is pretty much the opposite of the purpose of tags in the first place. Just because there is a FF site doesn't mean that _this_ site is suddenly just for abuse works.
Happy end is a tag meant to mark a 'happy end' : A desirable ending for the protagonists, not the people reading, or the antagonists.
Happy end is a tag meant to mark a 'happy end': What the author deems to indeed, be a happy end, and what is a happy end for the target audience. And that was what was tagged, and what has been run with. There's no reason to change it now (linked to reason below).
>>Just because there is a FF site doesn't mean that _this_ site is suddenly just for abuse works.
Indeed, it's not just for abuse works. Family friendly is still being uploaded here, abuse comments are not being made on family friendly. I don't see how keeping this tag suddenly makes it an all out yukkuri killing-torturing happiness crushing mania. And happy end, as the way it has been used, existed for far longer than the FF site. Also, if it's really bothering you that their needs to be a desirable ending, deleting this tag, replacing it with other material, and then everybody who used to use this tag goes to make a new tag, is not quite as efficient as making a new tag for the new meaning (desirable ending).
>>Happy end is a tag meant to mark a 'happy end' : A desirable ending for the protagonists, not the people reading, or the antagonists.
I already mentioned this but there are no clearly set protagonists. "Protagonist shmotagonist. It would be one thing if there was heavy exposition and insight into the family, if the audience was with them for an extended amount of time and expected to "bond" with them. There was one image introducing the setting and family and then the action starts."
>>Besides, does anybody ever searches using "happy_end" to begin with?
I use it quite a lot, I think it's a fair bet to say that Theodoric uses it, perhaps SUN? And it would be quite useful to other abusers, too. People are saying what would they do if they actually want to search for a 'happy' end? Not use the happy_end tag as they already seem to be very familiar with how it's been established. As said above, deleting all the content of this tag, then retagging everything, and then having to retag the old content with a new tag, is wasted effort when you could simply make a new tag. Heartwarming_end or whatever. You could say that they'd be out of place not using straight out happy end, but the exact same same would apply to the ones that are tagged happy end now. Also, seeing as the motivation behind eliminating the happy_end tag as it is, is that it gives "the site the wrong impression", and that ends when yukkuris are harmed in some way are 'Bad End', it's pretty much anti-abuse judgement of abuse stories. You might say "hurrr is this site abuse orientated"? Actually, it might be. But that's because that's what the artists give us; it's what most are interested in; and the endings they deem to be "happy_end", have also been what people have been interested in, and have run along with it. Attempting to disguise that fact (abuse is the most, deal with it, abuse artists think that happiness is when the yukkuris get killed, deal with it), and hide it, would rather be giving the site a wrong impression.
It's also not a big deal. We've all done fine here like it is, it's only been brought up now in the few years the tag's been here, the site hasn't fallen apart over this about a dozen times... Mezzo just seems to be scrutinising and trying to make a deal out of certain tags on abuse works ever since his "asshole_anon" tag got revoked.
>>How about we make a tag to mark real happy endings then? 'Good end', 'safe end' Something like that, but less stupid.
That's really all I've been trying to say. Both types of endings are 'real' happy endings for their respective audiences, but to make a tag for the other type, it's the easiest way out, the most efficient and pleases both groups. I've actually seen one around for that, heartwarming_end, but it seems somebody's gone round and removed all the tags. I'm surprised it hasn't gotten more use, actually.
Well, Safe end about covers it I suppose. I like feel_good_end because it doesn't imply that shitheads haven't died. Let see if we get any more ideas, then we'll decide.