Komarisa said: How come mishter humans are able to take it sho easy like thad!?
Because the city is an enviroment made by them to facilitate their needs and comfort while yu's are trying in vain to live in a enviroment that just isn't made for them or is easy enough for them?
Though I pity lil Marisa, If I were to blame someone in this scenario, It would be her and koreimu's parents for not leaving the city, or worse scenario, them coming to the city instead of reamining in the forest.
JusticeItEasy said: Though I pity lil Marisa, If I were to blame someone in this scenario, It would be her and koreimu's parents for not leaving the city, or worse scenario, them coming to the city instead of reamining in the forest.
You're assuming a few things that could make all the difference. You're assuming: A. That their parents even knew of the existence of "the forest". It's entirely possible that the family comes from a line of city yukkuri families, and as such the genetic 'memory' of the forest has been bred out.
B. That the family could have had the resources needed to move to "the forest" at some point in time. Moving is a dangerous endeavor for yukkuri, even at the best of times, and requires planning and preparation in order to be successful, something a decent number of yukkuri tend to be terribad at. Not to mention this family was so far into the yukkuri version of 'poverty' that the mother resorted to the 'please, eat up' trick to provide for her children.
C. That "The forest" will somehow be magically safer and 'easier' for a family of yukkuri that likely have spent their entire life in the city.
Simply put, survival in the city, and survival in the forest, require somewhat different skill sets.
In the city, all a yukkuri needs to do to acquire food is to remember the locations of garbage collection sites, and be able to tear open garbage bags. That, combined with the knowledge to avoid humans, and the handful of yukkuri predators in cities(Crows/ravens, maybe rats, stray/pet Remis and Flans, and stray dogs), will allow yukkuri to survive in the city.
In the forest, Yukkuri have to actually 'hunt' in order to acquire their food. This entails finding and killing insects of various types, some of which may have methods to cause significant harm to a yukkuri, whether that be Hurting them, or something like making them smell bad or damaging the accessory, since we all know how readily yukkuri turn on those that are 'different'(damaged accessory, 'smells bad', etc.). They also have to be aware of a far larger amount of predators. Another thing is that not all plants are good for eating, as some of them have the potential to outright kill a yukkuri via poison or other means. Also, scum/shithead yukkuri are probably in higher abundance in the forest, since ones in the city will likely get themselves killed by humans and thus have a lower presence there.
In conclusion, I think it would be easier for the 'Hardier' forest yukkuri to adapt to a city environment, than it would be for city yukkuri to adapt to a forest environment.
You are assuming things as well, like the idea that there are more predators in the wild than in the city, at least for yukkuris. Stories imply that is rare that big predators like wolves, bears, etc. attack yu's, unless the yu's bother them in some way. Meanwhile in the city, the quantity of animals willing to eat them is greater, we have to remember that biologically speaking, not many animals would eat yukkuris, and we also have to determinate "which" types would be hunted the most, since chocolate based yu's would be a death wish for dogs, and, ironically, predator yu's with meat feeling would be a better prey for many carnivorous animals.
The forest tend to be easier out of the enviroment it has, a City can be oppresive and uncaring for someone like a yukkuri, while the forest, even with all it's potential dangers, may feel welcoming or at least not opressive like the city, plus, there is less quantity of humans there. A great part of my logic of "go to the forest" is derivde from the posibility of yu's developing a stronger mindset about "avoiding humans" leading to them abandoning the cities out of instinct, even if they may not have any genetical memory about the forest, there is an anko recently summarized in oyp's wiki that shows a pair of yu's that do so, even though they end up failing out of listening to a patchouli about "meeting the vegetarian clan of humans.", so the idea of leaving without knowing anything about the forest isn't farfetch'd.
It's true that you would need more skills and such for living in the forest and that it would be harder to adapt, but overall, from an outsider's perspective comparing both enviroments and the gains and losses yu's have in them, the forest seems to be the closest thing to an "ideal" place for a yu, and, as I said before, while not having the genetical memory, the idea of leaving an opressive enviroment as the city could come out on the yu's mind, after all, as sad as it may sound, running away from uneasiness is one of their most notorious aspects.
Hmm, something for sure, I wouldn't go and speak about plants wiht poison killing them, that tends to change depending of the author, some plants do affect yu's in some stories and in some other stories the only way to kill a yu is through something that generates mold on them, is super spicy or super bitter, but anything else would be converted to bean paste magically. The effects of plants on yu's vary depending of the author so it's better to not asume "plants can poison them" when many stories says otherwise.
SHINOBI said: Then the ones who should be blamed is their forefathers who moved from their forest into the city.
Yeah maybe that would be better. Even if without them, only abandoned yu pets remained, they probably wouldn't be enough to keep the numbers as high as the stories imply stray yu's have, specially with such high death rate.
Well, I'm entirely neutral on this. One memorable quote for me: "we're all born selfish. It's through life that we learned to care about others.". Contrary to the popular belief that we're born pure and good. As babies, their view of the world is still a lot more limited than adult yukkuri who has seen a lot (read: more than 3) of everything in their lifetime. It's their parents obligation to teach them how they should behave, but obviously a dead anything can't speak.
If they ends up dead because of it, well, life sucks. But there's always the eternal easy place in the sky, although I heard (in an anko) that the place got so crowded by overpopulation, yukkuri are falling from the edge into hell.
JusticeItEasy said: Because the city is an enviroment made by them to facilitate their needs and comfort while yu's are trying in vain to live in a enviroment that just isn't made for them or is easy enough for them?
Well, there's only two kind of things on earth for human. - Natural: made by mother nature, plants, animals - Man-made: as said - Extra: supernatural & extra-terrestrial, but these are rare.
maximusfive said: In conclusion, I think it would be easier for the 'Hardier' forest yukkuri to adapt to a city environment, than it would be for city yukkuri to adapt to a forest environment.
Forest yukkuri, as you said, has higher amount of scum, and yukkuri is bad on measuring difference in power between creatures. It's their biggest liability against the biggest threat in city, human.
Besides, city yukkuri can be hardier too. They move on ashpalt and concrete instead of the softer soil and grasses. They have stronger instinct to handle more dense intensity of dangers. Light abuse from neutral humans who got annoyed (such as giving non-fatal kick) and competition for scarce resource should make them more sturdy. Like that story about the city stray Reimu that go to the forest and became dictator. Also there are stories that mentioned city yukkuri are more of the nomaden type that's on the move instead of the forest yukkuri that's more settled down (at least until the environment failed). City yukkuri also doesn't hibernate in winter.
Salem said: As babies, their view of the world is still a lot more limited than adult yukkuri who has seen a lot (read: more than 3) of everything in their lifetime. It's their parents obligation to teach them how they should behave, but obviously a dead anything can't speak.
Well that's why I originally blamed their parents, and then agreed with shinobi about blaming their forefathers. The Ko's don't know any better, lack the knowledge or development to come to that conclusion, it's the work of the adults to realize shit is bad and try to do something, So I won't blame a Ko for "not leaving the city", unless the parent told them "the city is uneasy! even if Papa doesn't make it little one, you must return to the forest/leave the uneasy city!" and the ko ignoring it's parent's plea.
The funny thing is that very few mister humans can take it easy. Most of us are born in poverty like komarisa here. She just has the strange luck to have been born in a rich country.
Join the Discussion and entertain might JIE or I'll Puff at you!
PathOfAbuse
Sadly true, though Marisa's needs would be way easier to fulfill compared to the more complex needs of mister humans (food, water and shelter stopped being the only needs a human have since long ago.)
Isn't it so ? Knowledge, understanding and self control is taught. :)
Gothic_Togekiss said: Which story? I would like to give that a read.
Stairway of Wind. The translation stopped in chapter 2 of 3 in the Google Groups.
PathOfAbuse said: She just has the strange luck to have been born in a rich country.
Because social gap brings up so much emotional reactions. But then... having living edible pastries jumping in poverty and hunger ridden community, their survival might not be different from entering Remirya den.
JusticeItEasy said: You are assuming things as well, like the idea that there are more predators in the wild than in the city, at least for yukkuris.
A larger amount of wildlife + A larger variety of wildlife, would likely equal a higher number of predators for yukkuri.
we have to remember that biologically speaking, not many animals would eat yukkuris, and we also have to determinate "which" types would be hunted the most, since chocolate based yu's would be a death wish for dogs, and, ironically, predator yu's with meat feeling would be a better prey for many carnivorous animals.
The majority of mammals are actually semi-omnivorous, and can eat things outside of their normal diet if pressed. I can name a few such animals that would be present in not insignificant numbers in the forested areas around where I live: Foxes, Raccoon's, Bear's, Coyote's, Wolves, Badgers, and probably a few more that I can't remember right now.
ALL of those one's I listed have not only predator tendencies or ARE predators outright, but will also eat fruits and vegetables as part of their normal diet. Thus yukkuri would be an easy, likely abundant, source of food, and thus the yukkuri would be hunted by said predators.
And yes, the Chocolate-based yukkuri would likely be avoided by the predators, but as far as I remember, that's only the Chen's. White chocolate does not actually have cacao in it, and as such is not truly chocolate, thus I don't know if it is as 'poisonous' to some animals as normal chocolate is, or if its not as 'poisonous' due to the lack of cacao in it. So, I have no idea if Youmu's would be avoided too.
A great part of my logic of "go to the forest" is derivde from the posibility of yu's developing a stronger mindset about "avoiding humans" leading to them abandoning the cities out of instinct, even if they may not have any genetical memory about the forest
so the idea of leaving without knowing anything about the forest isn't farfetch'd.
From what I've seen, yukkuri have a very narrow worldview. As such, I believe its possible that a yukkuri that has had its genetic memory of the forest/wild bred out of it, will likely have no idea whatsoever that there even IS a place outside of the city. Yes, that's presuming it doesn't meet a yukkuri that either still remembers the forest, or actually moved from the forest; But thats only if they A. Believe that yukkuri, and B. Remember any talk of the forest for more than a couple of days. Still it wouldn't surprise me if its not really that uncommon for city yukkuri to forget that there's a world outside of the city.
It's true that you would need more skills and such for living in the forest and that it would be harder to adapt, but overall, from an outsider's perspective comparing both enviroments and the gains and losses yu's have in them, the forest seems to be the closest thing to an "ideal" place for a yu,
I agree, I never said the forest wasn't ideal for yukkuri, just that it would be dangerous for city yukkuri to move to the forest, out of them lacking some of the skills needed to survive in a forest, as opposed to surviving in a city.
Hmm, something for sure, I wouldn't go and speak about plants wiht poison killing them, that tends to change depending of the author, some plants do affect yu's in some stories and in some other stories the only way to kill a yu is through something that generates mold on them, is super spicy or super bitter, but anything else would be converted to bean paste magically. The effects of plants on yu's vary depending of the author so it's better to not asume "plants can poison them" when many stories says otherwise.
They may not be present much(or at all) where I live, but Pepper plants do grow in the wild, you know. But I suppose you have a point there, just remember that there likely are plants that are super-bitter out there, and would possibly kill a yukkuri.
I forgot this in the last post, but you also forgot to address the issue that, for yukkuri, making such a big move is an almost hideously dangerous thing. Heck, there's stories of moves, lesser than one as big as moving to/from the city, going horribly wrong for the yukkuri. So, its kind of natural to conclude that yukkuri really need to plan and prepare before they attempt to move any significant distance, and yukkuri(excepting the rare niceheads/intelligent ones) are notoriously terribad at that kind of mental exercise.
maximusfive said: Stuff about Yu's capacities of long trips
Well we have many stories on which yukkuris to make long trips and such, how succesful they are depends of luck, if they have babies on them, if they travel with other adults and such. Probably the best course of action would be to leave the city while being adults and without ko's yet, and only refresh and have little ones AFTER leaving.
berserk komarisa in the second last panel makes me laugh.
Butsuffering je...able to take it sho easy like thad!?Eajy! Eajy!Hahaha, and then the- areHow come Mishter HumansThere's not even much Mishter Grass no je